Loomis holding up Payton trade per Pelissero + Payton says in next week we’ll know more EDIT: Payton to Denver talks regain momentum/starting page 20 (1 Viewer)

I was never confused about that. I understand that we don't literally write Loomis' checks. :shrug:
No, saying that knuckleheads here fund Loomis' salary is totally different...

Also totally different is the power of fans as stakeholders, compared to the power of owners as employers. We got there 🥳🥳
 
There’s a competitive advantage to the Saints that goes with not having Payton as a head coach in the league at all, both by reason of the depth of his intel in relation to the team and the heightened likelihood that he targets our players and/or our personnel.

I get the impetus to acquire something in exchange for Payton, but frankly, I would rather get nothing and have him sit for two years than exchange him now for anything less than a combination of early picks (or something like pick 3).
The problem is the Saints have so little in terms of draft capital and cap space they absolutely NEED to get something in exchange for Payton’s rights. They are going to lose a lot of talent this off-season due to past cap mismanagement and Loomis has openly talked about “resetting” the Saints cap. You can’t reset your cap and re sign players by kicking the can down the road like he has in the past.

The bill is now due for past sins. The Saints desperately need fresh young, CHEAP talent through the draft. Payton’s rights are pretty much the only means that give the Saints this opportunity.

Oh and just wait until Payton is traded and then he raids the Saints FO and players. All the best (that are left) will be gone.
 
Cards don't want to give up the number 3 pick and are posturing.
Yep, posturing, they probably want to trade bade in the 1st and get a couple picks out of it. Which I would do.
 
There’s a competitive advantage to the Saints that goes with not having Payton as a head coach in the league at all, both by reason of the depth of his intel in relation to the team and the heightened likelihood that he targets our players and/or our personnel.

I get the impetus to acquire something in exchange for Payton, but frankly, I would rather get nothing and have him sit for two years than exchange him now for anything less than a combination of early picks (or something like pick 3).
EXACTLY! and THANK YOU for saying that!

The prevailing mindset on this forum is that CSP is a valuable asset and must be dealt this offseason for maximum value. There are differing arguments as to what "maximum value" actually is. I agree CSP is a valuable asset, and depreciates in value every season he is further "removed" from the game. His intel right now is the best it will ever be; but even less next year; and even less the year after that. Doesn't make him any less of a good coach; just that his "intangible" values decrease. As it stands NOW, he is likely to poach Saints personnel and players to build up his new franchise in his vision. Every year that he is OUT of coaching, that likelihood diminishes, especially as it relates to the Saints franchise. Personnel get promoted, or move on according to succession plan; players age and/or get traded. Over time, CSPs interest in Saints personnel he is FAMILIAR with will decline.

CSP is a good coach with an impressive resume....an approximately 60%-65% win percentage, regardless of roster; numerous division titles and playoff appearances; multiple appearances in NFCCG; and a Superbowl appearance, with Superbowl victory. If that guy isn't coaching YOUR team, there is value in keeping him from coaching other peoples' teams, and especially from coaching AGAINST your team!

I'm in agreement with the "get maximum value" crowd. But none of us knows what the market will bear in the 2023 offseason. Loomis has a good idea of what he WANTS, and what others are willing to OFFER. If those are anywhere in the same ballpark, a deal will happen. If they aren't, I'd be happy to park CSP in the Fox Studio for another season and do it all again next year. My thought process is....while CSP is a depreciating asset, decreasing in value over time, I believe the decrease to CSP is far in excess of the decrease to the Saints. He'll never command more salary than he's capable of NOW. If he doesn't catch on with a new team for 2023, he'll have been "passed over" by 4 franchises that are DESPERATE for a coach with his resume. At some point, he's viewed as "damaged goods" for not landing one of those HC vacancies on a desperate franchise. Maybe he's already viewed that way...."Bountygate", year-long suspension, multiple 7-9 seasons between playoff appearances, "only 1 SB" with a HOF QB, etc... Point being, his asking price (salary to CSP) is probably less. But the value to the Saints to keep him OFF the sidelines remains the same.

I'm happy to trade CSP for whatever ML can extract. But whatever that is, I hope it's of higher value than forcing CSP out of all other franchises' campuses for another season. JMO...but I'm with Poison on this!
 
There’s a competitive advantage to the Saints that goes with not having Payton as a head coach in the league at all, both by reason of the depth of his intel in relation to the team and the heightened likelihood that he targets our players and/or our personnel.

I get the impetus to acquire something in exchange for Payton, but frankly, I would rather get nothing and have him sit for two years than exchange him now for anything less than a combination of early picks (or something like pick 3).
This is a great point that I honestly hadn’t even thought of. +1
 
😂… I like a good debate brother but come one man… that has never ever happened! but that would be a pretty good eff you! 😂

Just hire the entire staff and right before the season started, the head coach joins the team. 😂🤣😂
You don't think there is a guy out there that would take that job? Hell you could Houston that thing and just fire him. It's not like it's never happened before.
 
None of us knows for sure what's going on behind the scenes, or what Loomis is actually demanding in a trade. All we have is back and forth reporting, much of which contradicts previous reporting. Having said that, I tend to believe that Loomis is asking for a lot in return, and I'm glad he's doing it. This team needs draft capital in a bad way, and this is the only way we can get it in the short term.

Sure it's a gamble to ask for a lot and risk Payton sitting out 2 years and getting nothing in return, but IMO, it's a gamble worth taking. It may not turn out to our liking in the end, but at least I'm satisfied that our GM tried his best to get max return and didn't just roll over like so many were predicting.
 
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Does anyone on planet earth remember what the compensation was for Gruden, who at that point hadn't even won a super bowl yet?

hint: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and $8 million in cash.

So Loomis looking at 2 firsts is in line completely.
Just a couple years earlier, Mike Holmgren went from GB to Seattle for a 2nd round pick.

The Gruden deal is at the top end (not including the Parcells deal where the Jets got slammed for trying to hire Parcells as a consultant first to sidestep the rules).

I’d love to see us get two firsts. But the Gruden deal is just one example, and others point to lesser compensation. Meeting in the middle is most likely.
 
Does anyone on planet earth remember what the compensation was for Gruden, who at that point hadn't even won a super bowl yet?

hint: 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and $8 million in cash.

Is it possible that the Gruden deal has been talked about ad infinitum here, and that everyone either remembers it or heard about it?

Hint: It is. They have.

So Loomis looking at 2 firsts is in line completely.

It's in line with what the Raiders got for Gruden. It doesn't mean the Saints are going to get that for Payton.
 
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The problem is the Saints have so little in terms of draft capital and cap space they absolutely NEED to get something in exchange for Payton’s rights. They are going to lose a lot of talent this off-season due to past cap mismanagement and Loomis has openly talked about “resetting” the Saints cap. You can’t reset your cap and re sign players by kicking the can down the road like he has in the past.

The bill is now due for past sins. The Saints desperately need fresh young, CHEAP talent through the draft. Payton’s rights are pretty much the only means that give the Saints this opportunity.

Oh and just wait until Payton is traded and then he raids the Saints FO and players. All the best (that are left) will be gone.
I agree. But who will Sean take? I seriously doubt that he will get Mickey Loomis. Gayle won't let that happen. Jeff Ireland was a failed General Manager with the Dolphins. Besides Ireland fits well with his current position. Who's left? Pete Carmichael and Kris Richard hasn't been setting the world on fire either.
 

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