Loomis in the HC Search: More Important to Get It Right Than Do It Quick (1 Viewer)

[No2DC]

Again, we’re not talking about him leading our franchise or any other franchise.. at least I’m not. I’m simply responding to your assumptions that he can’t innovate and call an offense, as a coordinator, without Sean Payton, which he did do in 2012 when we had a top ranked offense. Yet, because you assume without a doubt that he can’t, he should be sent packing immediately. I view it differently, and though I’ve already stated why, I’ll do so again.

He’s learned from one of the greatest to ever do it for 16 years. He’s had his share of calling the offense successfully. Was it Payton’s scheme? Yes. It absolutely was. Is he capable of implementing his own creative play-calls and adapting to different personnel? I would think so, but I’m not around him every day like some of the others have been for a very long time. But, whoever becomes HC can’t discount that he’s been part of such a successful offense for a long time and has surely learned a ton from one of the all-time greats. Does that mean he automatic should stay? No. But should he automatic go just because Payton did? I also say no. That’s all I am saying. We can agree to disagree.

Unless Winston or a vet FA is the plan, we need some additional input/help on the offensive side. I basically am assuming it will be Allen at this point because that's where all signs are pointing with only one offensive candidate being interviewed.

 

[SweetT]

Then we just disagree. I don't think Loomis or any other competent high level executive would fill the HC position, or any top level position, with someone already with the organization without first doing due diligence and interviewing outside candidates. It's just not how high level hires are done. DA might well still get the job but he will have to compete with other candidates.

But, this is all funny. I really thought the article was pretty straight forward saying DA is in the mix but they will due their due diligence by interviewing all the top candidates they can. But, everyone has their own interpretation of it. Interpretations that I didn't see. Some think it means that DA is the hire and this is just PR to comply with the Rooney Rule and make it look like a real search. Others read it and decided it means that DA isn't getting the job.

I didn’t say that I believe Loomis is implying that DA wouldn’t get the job. I’m just saying that I interpret it as:
If Loomis was “in love” or “convinced” with DA, then he would have already slid DA into the HC role already. DA is a viable candidate, no doubt, but I still think there is a level of apprehension for Loomis when it comes to him. If anything, Loomis has seen DA fall, rise, and grow. He would know better than anyone if DA was ready to take the mantle or not. Personally, I don’t dislike the prospect of DA getting it. It would be great to have that continuity and he has HC experience, but Loomis has to make sure that this machine and culture stays on course.
Also, the reason many GMs don’t hire within the organization, without due diligence is bc coaches are typically fired….which means those coordinators are already fired or soon to be fired. It’s not often that a coach steps away out of the blue, like SP did. This is a different case. Like I gave an example of McDaniels earlier, the same can be said if (lets just say) McVay or Shanahan was on your staff and your coach abruptly retires. Those guys had clout and was talked about in lengths amongst NFL circles. Even commentators would gush over them. I’m just saying that DA doesn’t have that kinda clout. Doesn’t mean that he won’t get the job or won’t succeed if given the chance. Just my $.02

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Could we lure Sean back with a whole bunch of Juicy Fruit, and the right cleats?

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

Unless Winston or a vet FA is the plan, we need some additional input/help on the offensive side. I basically am assuming it will be Allen at this point because that's where all signs are pointing with only one offensive candidate being interviewed.

I’m afraid until we truly find the right QB, we are going to be hurting for a while. It’s one reason I am intrigued by the possibility of Winston being reunited with his old coordinator here. Can’t remember his name, but he’s one of the candidate’s we’ve seen. TB put up lots of points and yards, and even though Winston had a lot of interceptions, maybe he’s learned enough under Payton to control some of those poor decisions. I don’t know. I bet Loomis isn’t sleeping really well right now. Lol.

 

[meily]

He also oversaw the 3rd best offense in the NFL in 2012 when Sean Payton was suspended. I'd say he's just fine as the lead man controlling the offense.

He called Sean Payton's plays, he did not design anything...I hate this argument.

 

[No2DC]

I didn’t say that I believe Loomis is implying that DA wouldn’t get the job. I’m just saying that I interpret it as:
If Loomis was “in love” or “convinced” with DA, then he would have already slid DA into the HC role already. DA is a viable candidate, no doubt, but I still think there is a level of apprehension for Loomis when it comes to him. If anything, Loomis has seen DA fall, rise, and grow. He would know better than anyone if DA was ready to take the mantle or not. Personally, I don’t dislike the prospect of DA getting it. It would be great to have that continuity and he has HC experience, but Loomis has to make sure that this machine and culture stays on course.
Also, the reason many GMs don’t hire within the organization, without due diligence is bc coaches are typically fired….which means those coordinators are already fired or soon to be fired. It’s not often that a coach steps away out of the blue, like SP did. This is a different case. Like I gave an example of McDaniels earlier, the same can be said if (lets just say) McVay or Shanahan was on your staff and your coach abruptly retires. Those guys had clout and was talked about in lengths amongst NFL circles. Even commentators would gush over them. I’m just saying that DA doesn’t have that kinda clout. Doesn’t mean that he won’t get the job or won’t succeed if given the chance. Just my $.02

I think Josh is a good example considering the Denver thing didn't work. He seems like he's waiting around for the Pats job but you're right it's rare that organizations hire within. I forgot the Colts did try this after Dungy retired and Caldwell was very successful until Peyton's body began breaking down and they fired him after a losing season. As I stated before, San Fran is the one example of the in-house hire working out but you can argue that the table was already set with Steve Young waiting in the wings.

 

[No2DC]

I’m afraid until we truly find the right QB, we are going to be hurting for a while. It’s one reason I am intrigued by the possibility of Winston being reunited with his old coordinator here. Can’t remember his name, but he’s one of the candidate’s we’ve seen. TB put up lots of points and yards, and even though Winston had a lot of interceptions, maybe he’s learned enough under Payton to control some of those poor decisions. I don’t know. I bet Loomis isn’t sleeping really well right now. Lol.

Byron is taking the Jags job, just about everyone thinks it's a foregone conclusion. I am also unsure why they don't have more offensive candidates. In theory, you could hire an offensive guy and tell them to leave the defensive side to DA.

 

[Judge_Smails]

That's why I think if they hire DA as the head coach we are in trouble because there is no way you do an extensive search then hire your DC. I would also include whomever the coach is if they don't retain the defensive staff that is also a mistake because that side of the ball is set it's the offense that needs rebuilding/adjusting.

It’s possible to have an exhaustive search and still hire the person down the hall. If you have a strong organization that is consistently successful, then you should reasonably be able to promote from within.

 

[Saint Greg]

He called Sean Payton's plays, he did not design anything...I hate this argument.

You know that for sure?

 

[FLYGHT]

He called Sean Payton's plays, he did not design anything...I hate this argument.

Assuming again. You should go be the coach or GM since you know so much about what goes on at the executive level of the saints... at least in your mind...lol.

 

[SweetT]

Assuming again. You should go be the coach or GM since you know so much about what goes on at the executive level of the saints... at least in your mind...lol.

I believe SP was the one who designed the vast majority of plays. Brees had input as to which plays he liked, at what times of the game, and what situations. 2012 was Carmichael as OC and we all know why. But in 2011, at some point, SP gave the playcalling duties to Carmichael. Not sure how many games, but it happened. Outside of those two times (and obviously the game against the Bucs this past year) it was all SP as the true OC. How much input Carmichael had with designing plays? Not sure, but I’m sure he had some. If I had to guess percentage wise…..15%-20% tops. I would say that I feel Carmichael is solid. I mean, at no point in 2011 and 2012 did I ever think the offense was the problem. Those are the two years that he got to shine. However, our offense was loaded with talent with a HOF QB at those times. That makes a huge difference.

 

[JackDiesel]

He called Sean Payton's plays, he did not design anything...I hate this argument.

And you know this how? Payton himself has said it was a collaborative effort since Carmichael was Brees QB coach in San Diego. He knew what Brees was comfortable with and was able to mesh those plays with what Payton wanted. Surely you're not naive enough to believe the playbook was just designed by Payton...

Was Payton also telling him the game plans in 2012? And when to call which play on which down, etc? Did Payton tell him to call our most balanced offense we had in years and not just rely on Brees arm like we so often did under Payton?

It's an argument because it's factual and logical. Unlike yours.

 

[Slidell Mike]

In the process of vetting various candidates for the HC position rather than immediately making an in-house hire, I think Loomis at least benefits from getting different perspectives of the organization (coaches, personnel, etc.) and vision that others coaches see in the opportunity to coach the Saints. That is not a bad thing. Even if Loomis is "in love" with hiring DA after they have an official interview, he would be doing a disservice to himself as GM and the Saints organization to not interview other top candidates for their perspectives while he has the chance. And, who knows, an outside candidate might blow Loomis away in the interview process and he decides to go out of the organization.

He made a great hire 16 years ago and I didn't know who Sean Payton was at the time and was disappointed we didn't get Gary Kubiak (my choice). Shows you what I know! I'll trust Loomis on this one.

 

[SaintStephen1]

We all know it's going to be Allen. The defensive guys will revolt if it's not because they know Allen will bolt.

 

[DCTransplant]

I think our defense is good enough that we should roll with Allen for the next 2 years, while we still have Cam, Demario, and maybe Malcolm Jenkins. As much as we all loved Payton, the Spags year, the Rob Ryan years, keeping Joe Vitt forever..... those bad defenses wasted many of Drew's prime years. Payton only really won with DA and with Gregg Williams, both really strong defensive coaches. As horrific as our offense was this year, DA's defense kept us afloat, and damn near got us into the playoffs with zero help from the offense.... Even with Brees at QB, those bad defenses kept us below .500.

To me, DA is a top 5 defensive mind in the NFL, and I don't want to lose him. If we go with DA and the next 2 years aren't good, it's time to rebuild and start over with a new guy. If you go with a new guy and he fails, you're left wondering why you busted it up too quick.