Major fire at Notre Dame Cathedral (Paris) (2 Viewers)

[LuvNOLA]

too soon?

Gross ?

 

[Brennan77]

It is my understanding, that, that is not how the Catholic Church operates.

Notre Dame will be rebuilt with Catholics (& maybe some non Catholics) who have buckets of $$$ to spend & are very willingly to give it to the church.

Whenever I have wondered why the Catholic Church has billions of $$$ in artwork, gold & buildings......I have always been told that, “all of that has been donated.”

It just seems so bizarre to me, when Jesus lived such a humble, simple life.

It's common to think of Jesus this way, but I have to respectfully disagree. He healed the sick, revealed himself as the eternal "I am", forgave sin, rebuked false minded religious leadership, was crucified, rose from the dead, commissioned his followers to spread the Gospel throughout the world and then ascended into heaven. He is Logos, the way, the truth, and the life. There is nothing that is created in this universe that did not come to be through him. So while he may be humble in being, God taking upon himself a human nature even unto death, he certainly did not live a simple life.

That said, the story of Mary of Bethany, to me, seems to answer your objection.

John 12:1-8

Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Laz′arus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 There they made him a supper; Martha served, and Laz′arus was one of those at table with him. 3 Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment. 4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii[b]and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it. 7 Jesus said, “Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial. 8 The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me.”

300 denarii is estimated to be worth an entire year's earnings of a middle class family. The gesture of anointing was extremely expensive for someone of modest means. Yet Jesus doesn't stop her because the gift is fitting of the moment.

Now consider the mass, which presents to the faithful Christ, eternally glorified and eternally slain. It is a participation in heaven while still on earth. A church is primarily a place to celebrate mass, which is why it often includes some form of art centrally depicting the hierarchy of being of God in communion with his creation in heaven. In that context of the church as a place to realize a taste of heaven on earth, as a fortress against earthly evil, as an ark of salvation in the sea of chaos, as a place where Christ - body, blood, soul, and divinity are miraculously presented to us for communion...in that context, it's easy to see why it is fitting for a church to be exceedingly beautiful, even at great expense. And honestly, I'm not sure if we could even build anything like Notre Dame without that sort of thing in mind.

 

[T.P.]

 

[SystemShock]

And honestly, I'm not sure if we could even build anything like Notre Dame without that sort of thing in mind.

Right in the middle of my hometown, sits La Catedral of San Idelfonso, the oldest cathedral in the American continent (there's one older by about 40 years, but it is on an island). It was inaugurated in 1598. It may not be as beautiful as Notre Dame, but the churches and cathedrals of the new world doubled as forts, so they weren't big on stained glass or delicate structures back then.

The Spaniards acquired the necessary stones to build it by razing the 5 great pyramids that made the city of T'Hó, where Mérida is now, a Maya city that stood for a 1000 years. Well, they forced the Maya slaves to raze the pyramids for them, then forced them to build the cathedral. With the leftover stones, Francisco de Montejo, the founder of the city of Mérida, erected a palace for himself right next to it (only the original facade survives). Then they kicked all of the Mayas out of the city. The nickname of Mérida is The White City, BTW. Not hard to figure out why.

The same thing happened in Izamal, Zaci (today's Valladolid), Ticul, Dzibichaltún, and countless other cities, just in what is now known as the State of Yucatán.

It is hard to imagine my hometown without that cathedral right in the center of it, or without the facade of the House of Montejo next to it. There is a lot of history there. But at the same time, there was a lot of history in those 5 great pyramids that only live in legend now, and a lot of atrocities were committed to raze them, then a lot of atrocities committed to erect the monuments we see today.

I guess I am more of the mind set of, what is it that one has to put out of mind when building those monuments?

 

[Joe OKC]

Right in the middle of of my hometown, sits La Catedral of San Idelfonso, the oldest cathedral in the American continent (there's one older by about 40 years, but it is on an island). It was inaugurated in 1598. It may not be as beautiful as Notre Dame, but the churches and cathedrals of the new world doubled as forts, so they weren't big on stained glass or delicate structures back then.

Interesting post... I had to look those things up...

I am not Catholic, but I did have an Ancestor that spent a little time in a Cathedral. He was from Tennessee. Here's what it looks like today.

That is the only Cathedral I am familiar with other than St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans

 

[LuvNOLA]

It's common to think of Jesus this way, but I have to respectfully disagree. He healed the sick, revealed himself as the eternal "I am", forgave sin, rebuked false minded religious leadership, was crucified, rose from the dead, commissioned his followers to spread the Gospel throughout the world and then ascended into heaven. He is Logos, the way, the truth, and the life. There is nothing that is created in this universe that did not come to be through him. So while he may be humble in being, God taking upon himself a human nature even unto death, he certainly did not live a simple life.

That said, the story of Mary of Bethany, to me, seems to answer your objection.

John 12:1-8


300 denarii is estimated to be worth an entire year's earnings of a middle class family. The gesture of anointing was extremely expensive for someone of modest means. Yet Jesus doesn't stop her because the gift is fitting of the moment.

Now consider the mass, which presents to the faithful Christ, eternally glorified and eternally slain. It is a participation in heaven while still on earth. A church is primarily a place to celebrate mass, which is why it often includes some form of art centrally depicting the hierarchy of being of God in communion with his creation in heaven. In that context of the church as a place to realize a taste of heaven on earth, as a fortress against earthly evil, as an ark of salvation in the sea of chaos, as a place where Christ - body, blood, soul, and divinity are miraculously presented to us for communion...in that context, it's easy to see why it is fitting for a church to be exceedingly beautiful, even at great expense. And honestly, I'm not sure if we could even build anything like Notre Dame without that sort of thing in mind.

Beautifully written & thoughtful.

 

[SystemShock]

Interesting post... I had to look those things up...

I am not Catholic, but I did have an Ancestor that spent a little time in a Cathedral. He was from Tennessee. Here's what it looks like today.

That is the only Cathedral I am familiar with other than St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans

Yes. The Alamo started as a Catholic mission. It later became a fort, because it was built like one.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Interesting post... I had to look those things up...

I am not Catholic, but I did have an Ancestor that spent a little time in a Cathedral. He was from Tennessee. Here's what it looks like today.

That is the only Cathedral I am familiar with other than St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans

Hey Ozzy visited there

 

[Brennan77]

Hey Ozzy visited there

So did peewee. You should check out the basement if you ever go.

 

[49erKiller]

So did peewee. You should check out the basement if you ever go.

Wash your hands before you leave? ?

 

[coldseat]

Interesting post... I had to look those things up...

I am not Catholic, but I did have an Ancestor that spent a little time in a Cathedral. He was from Tennessee. Here's what it looks like today.

That is the only Cathedral I am familiar with other than St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans

The Alamo is a Catholic Mission. It's a church/fort, but not a cathedral. The cathedral in San Antonio is San Fernando Cathedral, they started building it about 20 years after the Alamo.

 

[sfidc3]

Right in the middle of my hometown, sits La Catedral of San Idelfonso, the oldest cathedral in the American continent (there's one older by about 40 years, but it is on an island). It was inaugurated in 1598. It may not be as beautiful as Notre Dame, but the churches and cathedrals of the new world doubled as forts, so they weren't big on stained glass or delicate structures back then.

The Spaniards acquired the necessary stones to build it by razing the 5 great pyramids that made the city of T'Hó, where Mérida is now, a Maya city that stood for a 1000 years. Well, they forced the Maya slaves to raze the pyramids for them, then forced them to build the cathedral. With the leftover stones, Francisco de Montejo, the founder of the city of Mérida, erected a palace for himself right next to it (only the original facade survives). Then they kicked all of the Mayas out of the city. The nickname of Mérida is The White City, BTW. Not hard to figure out why.

The same thing happened in Izamal, Zaci (today's Valladolid), Ticul, Dzibichaltún, and countless other cities, just in what is now known as the State of Yucatán.

It is hard to imagine my hometown without that cathedral right in the center of it, or without the facade of the House of Montejo next to it. There is a lot of history there. But at the same time, there was a lot of history in those 5 great pyramids that only live in legend now, and a lot of atrocities were committed to raze them, then a lot of atrocities committed to erect the monuments we see today.

I guess I am more of the mind set of, what is it that one has to put out of mind when building those monuments?

Totally agreed, thus my statement about not being a fan of the Catholic church or any other organized religion. The Catholic church is still covering up incredible atrocities as we speak. And the notion of "confession" to me is absolutely ridiculous...I'm of the very simple belief that the god that created us would want us to treat each other well and do good things...I'm hopeful that god does not think it is all about....god.....

 

[DaveXA]

Let's not turn this into a different thread. Keep the discussion on the Cathedral. We've had these discussions before in other threads.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Thank you Dave. Shoring of the roof should be completed today. Interior cleanup/art removal shortly thereafter tonight.

 

[Devildog]

Notre-Dame fire: International call for architects to design new spire