Marine Commandant Halts Body Armor Shipments (1 Viewer)

DadsDream

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A little background here first.

The Army and the Marines decided to go with heavy plate body armor, even after an independent researcher came up with Dragon Skin, a lighter and some say much more effective armor.

Last year, with troops forking money out of their own pockets for Dragon Skin, the Army and the Marines issued an order banning Dragon Skin and basically ordering everybody to wear what they were issued.

Today, after visiting in Iraq, the Marine Corps newest commandant, Gen. James Conway, ordered a halt to all shipments of the plate armor vests.

He gave it the worst insult a Marine commander can give: "It's not a winner." :plus-un2:

Marines Call New Body Armor Heavy, Impractical
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
By Jennifer Griffin


BAGHDAD, Iraq — The Pentagon and Marine Corps authorized the purchase of 84,000 bulletproof vests in 2006 that not only are too heavy but are so impractical that some U.S. Marines are asking for their old vests back so they can remain agile enough to fight.

Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway wants to know who authorized the costly purchase of the nearly 30-pound flak jackets and has ordered the Marine procurement officers at the Quantico base in Virginia to halt the rest of an unfilled order, FOX News has learned.

"I’m not quite sure how we got to where we are, but what I do know is it is not a winner," Conway told FOX News at the end of his recent trip to Iraq.

"I think it is foolish to buy more."

READ MORE
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333154,00.html

Modular Tactical Vest (MTV)
Marines say it's too heavy, it scrapes your ears and nose raw when you put it on and the rapid release feature sometimes makes it fall to pieces without warning.


Dragon Skin Armor
Some troops actually buy it and wear it under their issued armor vest.
 

BigRonJon

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Dragon Skin is awesome. I saw it a while back on TV. I cant see any reason not to use it, except for some political $ garbage.
 

CitySaint

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It looks like this guy Gen. Conway became Marine Commandant in late 06'. The guy before him may likely be responsible for the order. Does this mean they will allow Dragon Skin to be used under what's issued? I guess they'll just go back to the old stuff more than likely. I know they won't let D-Skin cut in on Halliburtons profits thats for sure.
 
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DadsDream

DadsDream

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Check out the Marine Corps order that was issued about privately purchased PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) just last April...


Date signed: 04/17/2007
MARADMIN Number: 262/07

MARINE CORPS POLICY ON THE WEAR AND PURCHASE OF BODY ARMOR AND PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)

(Exerpt)

5. INDIVIDUAL MARINES/SAILORS MAY NOT USE COMMERCIAL PPE IN LIEU OF
GOVERNMENT TESTED, APPROVED AND ISSUED PPE. COMMANDERS MAY AUTHORIZE MEMBERS OF THEIR COMMANDS TO USE COMMERCIALLY PURCHASED PPE ITEMS IN ADDITION TO THOSE ISSUED BY THE GOVERNMENT, AS LONG AS ADDITIONS DO NOT INTERFERE WITH THE FUNCTIONALITY OF APPROVED PPE. INDIVIDUALLY PURCHASED COMMERCIAL PPE WILL NOT BE REIMBURSABLE BY COMMAND/UNIT (GOVERNMENT) FUNDS.

READ MORE
http://www.usmc.mil/maradmins/marad...038ee0388b22016f852572c00076d885?OpenDocument

So, under this order, they could wear privately purchased armor, IF their commander authorized it and IF they also wore their issued armor as well.
 

Saintshizzle

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They need to wear our vest for a day, all complaints will end immediately.

It's a hard decision to go lighter, b/c their AK, PKEs and Duschke's can penetrate that stuff, rgardless what those tests are showing.
 

Saintshizzle

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I have seen them. The new units are coming in with the. We could change, but I made the decision not to. Mostly, because they weigh almost the same as what we are currently in (IBA...the heavy suit everyone is running away from). SSG Warren, one fo the guys who recently met BD, went to Balad for the sole-purpose of echanging his vest from M to L. He was going to get the new on, tried it on, and said that is was just as heavy. So he stuck with the old style. It may give us more flexibility, but too many open areas that we could take a sniper shot.
 

City Champ

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i am about to buy some dragon skin. the Israelis use it and its very effective...
 

staphory

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Dragon Skin is awesome. I saw it a while back on TV. I cant see any reason not to use it, except for some political $ garbage.
This is what the Army testing found...

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,136293,00.html


This website has a really good discussion going on about it...

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14523


It looks like this guy Gen. Conway became Marine Commandant in late 06'. The guy before him may likely be responsible for the order. Does this mean they will allow Dragon Skin to be used under what's issued? I guess they'll just go back to the old stuff more than likely. I know they won't let D-Skin cut in on Halliburtons profits thats for sure.
What has Haliburton got to do with this? They don't manufacture body armor.

Look at what embedded reporter Michael Yon said about his Dragon Skin vest.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/news-flash-the-battle-over-body-armor.htm
 

BullDawg

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Honestly, the "heavy" plate version doesn't seem that much heavier (if at all) than the old flak vests.
 

staphory

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Honestly, the "heavy" plate version doesn't seem that much heavier (if at all) than the old flak vests.
and we know how good the old flak vests are. :ezbill:
 

Saintshizzle

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At the urging of Capitol Hill, the Army bought 30 Dragon Skin vests in May of 2006 and put them through a standard "first article" test to see if the armor could hold up to the same ballistic conditions its current-issued ESAPIs must endure during certification.

According to Karl Masters, one of the Army's top ballistics experts, the Dragon Skin failed to stop a 7.62 x 63mm APM2 round on the second shot of the test.
Guess what calibur round the AK is, a weapon the we are ducking daily? Yep, good guess.
 
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Dragon skin is an "ok" armor. It's receiving rave reviews primarily because of it's weight. The company I work for (Texstars Inc.) are currently working with another company called ArmorSmith and have developed a body armor that puts Dragon skin to shame. This body armor has been already tested at the US Balistic's munitions range in Kansas. It's also been tested and approved by numberous MEW SOC units and SWAT teams. One of the well known Marines from the Blackhawk Down situation supports it so much that he endorsed / promoted it at last months armor trade show in Las Vegas. Personally I really cant go into specifics on what it's made of or just how light / heavy it is, but I will tell you that the material is so tough, it CAN'T be machined (CNC'd), and instead the contour (shape of the vest) has to be abrasion waterjetted (Im the one who created the waterjetting programs for it)... Dont know exactly when it will be released, but I do know it wont be very long at all.. The personel at the munitions testing site said that they've never even seen anything close to the protection that this vest gives; and yes, they've even tested Dragon skin. Yes this vest "easily" passed the 7.62 AP rounds.... We are actually working on several "versions" of this same vest and right now just talking about the possibility (R&D discussions) of a .50cal proof vest; Yeah, I know how silly that sounds but like I just said, it's only in the discussion phase right now. Some of the other things we currently are making: Armor the MRAPS and TAGS... I'll pull up some photos and paste them in here.
 
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cruize

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Imagine that. Life and death coming down to money and politics. God Bless America.
 

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