Marines Propose Afghan Redeployment...Let the Army Have Iraq (1 Viewer)

DadsDream

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Makes sense to me. Make Afghanistan an all-Marine show and make Iraq an all-Army show instead of having both of them split their forces between the two.

NEW YORK TIMES
Marines Press to Remove Their Forces From Iraq
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By THOM SHANKER
Published: October 11, 2007


WASHINGTON, Oct. 10 — The Marine Corps is pressing to remove its forces from Iraq and to send marines instead to Afghanistan, to take over the leading role in combat there, according to senior military and Pentagon officials.

The idea by the Marine Corps commandant would effectively leave the Iraq war in the hands of the Army while giving the Marines a prominent new role in Afghanistan, under overall NATO command.

The suggestion was raised in a session last week convened by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and regional war-fighting commanders. While still under review, its supporters, including some in the Army, argue that a realignment could allow the Army and Marines each to operate more efficiently in sustaining troop levels for two wars that have put a strain on their forces.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/washington/11military.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
 
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DadsDream

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The Secretary of Defense, however, appears to be cautious. Maybe the NYT jumped the gun a bit.

REUTERS
Gates plays down report Marines want Iraq exit
By Andrew Gray


LONDON, Oct 11 (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Thursday played down a newspaper report that the U.S. Marine Corps was pressing to remove its forces from Iraq and switch to a leading role in Afghanistan.

"I have heard that they were beginning to think about that and that's all that I've heard. I've seen no plan, no one's come to me with any proposals about it," Gates told reporters in London after meeting his British counterpart, Des Browne.

The New York Times reported on Wednesday that the Marines' suggestion was raised in a session last week convened by Gates for the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff and regional war-fighting commanders. It comes at a time when Washington's key ally in Iraq, Britain, is drawing down its presence there.

"My understanding is that it's -- at this point -- extremely preliminary thinking on the part of perhaps some staff people in the Marine Corps but I don't think at this point it has any stature," Gates said.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSL11646715
 

Saint by the Bay

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IMO the Marines are the worst suited for these types of nation building world police missions. They aren't trained or built for defense, which is what these missions are. They are trained an built to be on the offensive. To be aggressive. To always be moving forward with a unique combination of discipline and ferocity. Marines aren't boxers, their sluggers. They come right after you and don't stop coming until your done.

Turning a Marine into a beat cop (which is basically what they are in Iraq) is like trying to turn a wild tiger into a house cat. They just aren't suited to it.
 

RebSaint

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IMO the Marines are the worst suited for these types of nation building world police missions. They aren't trained or built for defense, which is what these missions are. They are trained an built to be on the offensive. To be aggressive. To always be moving forward with a unique combination of discipline and ferocity. Marines aren't boxers, their sluggers. They come right after you and don't stop coming until your done.

Turning a Marine into a beat cop (which is basically what they are in Iraq) is like trying to turn a wild tiger into a house cat. They just aren't suited to it.
True, the army is better suited in this regard.

However, I think the military period should be limited in any "nation-building" exercise. The army doesn't exactly train its soldiers to beat cops, either.

But we're liberators, not occupiers.

:shrug:
 

Saint by the Bay

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True, the army is better suited in this regard.

However, I think the military period should be limited in any "nation-building" exercise. The army doesn't exactly train its soldiers to beat cops, either.

But we're liberators, not occupiers.

:shrug:
I think we need to decide if we're nation builders or not once and for all. If we are, we need either a branch of the military dedicated to it or at bare minimum an MOS in the Army designed for it. It'.s ridiculous that we have decided to take on this role, put our guys in the line of fire but not train them on how to handle it and not properly equip them for this type of mission. This isn't about Bush either, it's been going on for a while.

I'd prefer we were NOT nation builders but if our leaders are determined to keep forcing us to be then for the love of God train and equip our men and women for it.
 

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I think we need to decide if we're nation builders or not once and for all. If we are, we need either a branch of the military dedicated to it or at bare minimum an MOS in the Army designed for it. It'.s ridiculous that we have decided to take on this role, put our guys in the line of fire but not train them on how to handle it and not properly equip them for this type of mission. This isn't about Bush either, it's been going on for a while.

I'd prefer we were NOT nation builders but if our leaders are determined to keep forcing us to be then for the love of God train and equip our men and women for it.
Completely agree here. From a historical perspective, there might be a need for the military to function as nation-builders, but it seems that not enough training is put into serving in this capacity.

:shrug:
 

St. Widge

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I think we need to decide if we're nation builders or not once and for all. If we are, we need either a branch of the military dedicated to it or at bare minimum an MOS in the Army designed for it. It'.s ridiculous that we have decided to take on this role, put our guys in the line of fire but not train them on how to handle it and not properly equip them for this type of mission. This isn't about Bush either, it's been going on for a while.

I'd prefer we were NOT nation builders but if our leaders are determined to keep forcing us to be then for the love of God train and equip our men and women for it.

The thing is that as long as we are going to war with and defeating other countries we will always be to some extent in the nation building business. International Law requires you to re-build a country if and when you destroy it in a war. The only way to stop being nation builders is to stop being nation destroyers.


But, since that's never really been an option (war is at times justified and necessary), I'm amazed we don't have a branch or section of the military which is trained to do just that. I guess the government figures they can always hire private contractors to do most of that work. Blackwater seems to be working out well.

FWIW, I'd like to see both the Marines and the Army in Afghanistan looking to kill Bin Laden, A.Q. and any other terrorist presence there or near the border.
 
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IMO the Marines are the worst suited for these types of nation building world police missions. They aren't trained or built for defense, which is what these missions are. They are trained an built to be on the offensive. To be aggressive. To always be moving forward with a unique combination of discipline and ferocity. Marines aren't boxers, their sluggers. They come right after you and don't stop coming until your done.

Turning a Marine into a beat cop (which is basically what they are in Iraq) is like trying to turn a wild tiger into a house cat. They just aren't suited to it.

I must say, very well put..... :plus-un2:
 
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DadsDream

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But, since that's never really been an option (war is at times justified and necessary), I'm amazed we don't have a branch or section of the military which is trained to do just that.
We do, Widge. Every U.S. Army unit of Corps size or larger has a Civil-Military Operations staff (G-9).

Here's the one for the U.S. Army's 5th Corps:
http://www.vcorps.army.mil/G9/default.htm
 

St. Widge

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We do, Widge. Every U.S. Army unit of Corps size or larger has a Civil-Military Operations staff (G-9).

Here's the one for the U.S. Army's 5th Corps:
http://www.vcorps.army.mil/G9/default.htm
My reading of your link seems to suggest that they are more of an administrative arm. Is that correct? If so, it seems to me that they need to give them some more staff that can be trained essentially as peacekeepers/beat cops.
 
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DadsDream

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My reading of your link seems to suggest that they are more of an administrative arm. Is that correct? If so, it seems to me that they need to give them some more staff that can be trained essentially as peacekeepers/beat cops.
Yes and they manage and allocate the rebuilding money and materials too.

As far as the boots-on-the-ground type of peacekeepers/beat cops, that traditionally falls to the US Army's Military Police Corps once combat operations cease. As we've mentioned here before, an entire cadre of 30,000 was established for post-WWII Germany, as its own separate command.

Historically, the Marines have also played this role a number of times, particularly in the Americas.
 

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