Marvel Phase 4 (1 Viewer)

St. Widge

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Or maybe they decide the idea of a 'king' is completely antiquated, because, well, it is.

Maybe, but I would think that regardless of if they are the king or not, someone will take on the mantle of Black Panther.
 

Crzycjunx76

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Well with the Loki Show and second Dr. Strange movie dealing with the multiverse, could some timelines "collapse" and have refugees?

Would help with the X-Men... but mostly I was thinking N'Jadaka from a universe where his father wasn't killed and he was instead brought to Wakanda and raised by his uncle, eventually becoming the Black Panther.
 

Grandadmiral

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Yeah, I'd say M'Baku as well. But, I really like Shuri for the role. She can fight, but she relies a good bit on her tech to do it, which still makes her formidable. I just wonder whether she'd be able to do the 1 on 1 battle to death or yield for the right to lead Wakanda.
There was recently a mini series where Shuri reluctantly became the Black Panther while T'Challa was off planet. I thought that if they every tried to put it into the MCU, that was the way to go. Now they just have to make a permanent plot to make it happen.

I still say Killmonger is still alive and eventually gets the mantle.
 

Jeff Miller

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To get this back on track and avoid more folks putting their comics on the table and measuring....

Can you expand on this? i.e. what brought you to even say this, and what did you mean? I'm a bit lost here. I'd rather not comment too much until I get your point better, or if you're taking exception to something.

I don't think other folks need to be looking for dog whistles from something somewhat vague.
Back in the late 80's and 90's we had a flood of new characters and lot of them were pretty darn good. They ran the gambit of ethnicities, races (as in races from other pallets) and BOTH sexes. Back then it the focus was to create something new and original, give the character his, or hers, own origin, identity, motivation, though them into a difficult situation and see how they grow through it.

They didn't take existing characters and swap them out for now reason. Even Reign of the Supermen resulted in 4 original characters. Even the Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't redefine characters into something they weren't before, it merged longstanding existing characters with fresh new one's. Even the X-men events favored killing off or having members leave the team and replacing them with other original characters.

Now a days new characters to tell new stories in a modern world aren't made, they just take old characters and redefine them based on nothing more then gender, race so whatever social justice agenda of the day will get them the virtue signaling points they are looking for. Its lazy, uncreative writing that isn't story telling, its preaching by people who just don't like the continuity that was established for a 40 to 60 year run that included multiple creators over a wide range of backgrounds, origins and beliefs.

I'll just be glad with the woke phase is over.

Probably the best example of this was the reimagination of Victor Von Doom in Fan4stick.

I'm not such a purist that everything that happens in the movies has to be 100% beholden to comics, the art is capturing the essence of the character and molding to fit the medium of entertainment that is as faithful to the intention of the original concept as possible. And if you want to go in a different direction, then make a new character.
 
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DaveXA

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There was recently a mini series where Shuri reluctantly became the Black Panther while T'Challa was off planet. I thought that if they every tried to put it into the MCU, that was the way to go. Now they just have to make a permanent plot to make it happen.

I still say Killmonger is still alive and eventually gets the mantle.

Well, in this MCU, there are more than a few ways to bring Killmonger back, but...I think he's RIP. But, if he comes back, you just know him and M'Baku along with Shuri will all be knocking heads. I think Killmonger would still be a villain if he's still alive or coming back somehow.

He's gonna get a lot of grief for destroying the heart shaped herb. That's pretty unforgivable in their culture.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Back in the late 80's and 90's we had a flood of new characters and lot of them were pretty darn good. They ran the gambit of ethnicities, races (as in races from other pallets) and BOTH sexes. Back then it the focus was to create something new and original, give the character his, or hers, own origin, identity, motivation, though them into a difficult situation and see how they grow through it.

They didn't take existing characters and swap them out for now reason. Even Reign of the Supermen resulted in 4 original characters. Even the Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't redefine characters into something they weren't before, it merged longstanding existing characters with fresh new one's. Even the X-men events favored killing off or having members leave the team and replacing them with other original characters.

Now a days new characters to tell new stories in a modern world aren't made, they just take old characters and redefine them based on nothing more then gender, race so whatever social justice agenda of the day will get them the virtue signaling points they are looking for. Its lazy, uncreative writing that isn't story telling, its preaching by people who just don't like the continuity that was established for a 40 to 60 year run that included multiple creators over a wide range of backgrounds, origins and beliefs.

I'll just be glad with the woke phase is over.

Probably the best example of this was the reimagination of Victor Von Doom in Fan4stick.

I'm not such a purist that everything that happens in the movies has to be 100% beholden to comics, the art is capturing the essence of the character and molding to fit the medium of entertainment that is as faithful to the intention of the original concept as possible. And if you want to go in a different direction, then make a new character.
so mutants, aliens, gods, science experiments gone awry, et al; you don't bat an eye; but a female Thor or whatever and you're all like 'hey get your fantasy out of my reality'
really?

Marvel has a tremendous back catalogue of stories - stories that have been told, reimagined and the retold several times - they now have a sense of what will translate onto tv/movies and will keep using that formula while playing at the edges of what they can push and how far
this is a global business telling global stories using globally recognized characters - i'm surprised that you would be surprised that they would be expansive in their storytelling (i'm not really surprised)

and i think you know this and i think it's what fuels your anxiety - you and i are fossils dying off - women and peoples of color stories are here to stay
 

Grandadmiral

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so mutants, aliens, gods, science experiments gone awry, et al; you don't bat an eye; but a female Thor or whatever and you're all like 'hey get your fantasy out of my reality'
really?

Marvel has a tremendous back catalogue of stories - stories that have been told, reimagined and the retold several times - they now have a sense of what will translate onto tv/movies and will keep using that formula while playing at the edges of what they can push and how far
this is a global business telling global stories using globally recognized characters - i'm surprised that you would be surprised that they would be expansive in their storytelling (i'm not really surprised)

and i think you know this and i think it's what fuels your anxiety - you and i are fossils dying off - women and peoples of color stories are here to stay
I've been collecting comics since I was 9 and am as traditionalist as they come, but I refuse to get into anything with Jeff and his agenda/plight with the industry/whatever because it's not worth it. Look at every thread that talks pop culture. He hates Dr. Who and believes Jodi Whittaker it's the worse. I wonder why (actually, I don't).

I'm going to enjoy my digital chapter of The Next Batman: Second Son. I can only imagine what he thinks of Batman being a rich black guy (actually, I don't need to). But as traditionalist as I may be, outside of Detective Comics (which is being written by a LGBTQIA+ female), Second Son is one of my favorite DC books.
 

Saint_Ward

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Back in the late 80's and 90's we had a flood of new characters and lot of them were pretty darn good. They ran the gambit of ethnicities, races (as in races from other pallets) and BOTH sexes. Back then it the focus was to create something new and original, give the character his, or hers, own origin, identity, motivation, though them into a difficult situation and see how they grow through it.

They didn't take existing characters and swap them out for now reason. Even Reign of the Supermen resulted in 4 original characters. Even the Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't redefine characters into something they weren't before, it merged longstanding existing characters with fresh new one's. Even the X-men events favored killing off or having members leave the team and replacing them with other original characters.

Now a days new characters to tell new stories in a modern world aren't made, they just take old characters and redefine them based on nothing more then gender, race so whatever social justice agenda of the day will get them the virtue signaling points they are looking for. Its lazy, uncreative writing that isn't story telling, its preaching by people who just don't like the continuity that was established for a 40 to 60 year run that included multiple creators over a wide range of backgrounds, origins and beliefs.

I'll just be glad with the woke phase is over.

Probably the best example of this was the reimagination of Victor Von Doom in Fan4stick.

I'm not such a purist that everything that happens in the movies has to be 100% beholden to comics, the art is capturing the essence of the character and molding to fit the medium of entertainment that is as faithful to the intention of the original concept as possible. And if you want to go in a different direction, then make a new character.
Ok, so what from the MCU movies, or upcoming projects has you bringing all this up? I can understand some of that, but where has that happened?

I can sort of think back to 2015 when Iceman from X-men ended up being revealed as Gay. It wasn't overly shocking, because he was mostly just known as a half serious, mostly joking kind of character who never really had any significant or good relationships. That's almost stereotypical of same gay men who take time to figure themselves out.

To me, the bigger part of his character was that he never really tried too hard to be better (at least as an adult), he'd rather be the comic relief. It wasn't until Emma Frost mentally hijacked him and saw the full potential of his powers. He could literally fly through the air. He was so powerful. She gave him such crap for not being the strongest version of himself. I think in Age of Apocalypse (the first one), that version of Bobby was quite powerful and didn't hold back.

I think sometime around when "the Phoenix Five" or whatever came out is when I stopped reading the books though.
 

Taurus

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so mutants, aliens, gods, science experiments gone awry, et al; you don't bat an eye; but a female Thor or whatever and you're all like 'hey get your fantasy out of my reality'
really?

Marvel has a tremendous back catalogue of stories - stories that have been told, reimagined and the retold several times - they now have a sense of what will translate onto tv/movies and will keep using that formula while playing at the edges of what they can push and how far
this is a global business telling global stories using globally recognized characters - i'm surprised that you would be surprised that they would be expansive in their storytelling (i'm not really surprised)

and i think you know this and i think it's what fuels your anxiety - you and i are fossils dying off - women and peoples of color stories are here to stay

But it's not a female Thor. It's Jane Foster wielding the power of Thor. But that's not the point, at least for me.

Male, female, frog, whatever. But Thor Odinson is NOT a passive-aggressive d-bag. Would Spider-Man be that character if they wrote him as a super-polite kid from Smallville? No. His name might still be Peter Parker, he might still shoot webs, but he wouldn't be Spider-Man. Just make a new character already.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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But it's not a female Thor. It's Jane Foster wielding the power of Thor. But that's not the point, at least for me.

Male, female, frog, whatever. But Thor Odinson is NOT a passive-aggressive d-bag. Would Spider-Man be that character if they wrote him as a super-polite kid from Smallville? No. His name might still be Peter Parker, he might still shoot webs, but he wouldn't be Spider-Man. Just make a new character already.
not arguing, i legit don't know who the PA d-bag refers to
 

DaveXA

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not arguing, i legit don't know who the PA d-bag refers to
He's saying Thor isn't one, and shouldn't be made into one. That's what he was essentially turned into in Endgame. I get why people didn't like the portrayal of Thor in EG. I didn't care for it myself, although I do get why. And whoever weilds the power next, make it someone not Thor.

Although, it's probably for naught because Falcon is now Captain America. But Thor is his actual name while Cap is more of a symbol than a name. But I dunno, I guess it's ultimately subjective.
 

GW93

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There was recently a mini series where Shuri reluctantly became the Black Panther while T'Challa was off planet. I thought that if they every tried to put it into the MCU, that was the way to go. Now they just have to make a permanent plot to make it happen.

I still say Killmonger is still alive and eventually gets the mantle.
If they somehow bring Killmonger back to take up the mantle of Black Panther, that would work probably only because of Michael B. Jordan.

They could make it work, though. For a guy called "Killmonger,," did we actually see him kill anyone besides Klaue and Zuri? Although some Wakandans might take issue with him murdering one of their top royal advisors.
 

DaveXA

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If they somehow bring Killmonger back to take up the mantle of Black Panther, that would work probably only because of Michael B. Jordan.

They could make it work, though. For a guy called "Killmonger,," did we actually see him kill anyone besides Klaue and Zuri? Although some Wakandans might take issue with him murdering one of their top royal advisors.

Clearly, he earned his name long before he got to Wakanda as shown by the kill marks all over his body. He'd already done more than enough killing. He didn't go to Wakanda to kill, but rather, return home and take what's rightfully his. His objective wasn't to kill people, but to take the throne and win the confidence of Wakanda.

The worst thing he did was destroy the heart shaped herb though. I think what would be what Wakandans judge as unforgivable in their culture. They wouldn't willingly recognize his authority because of that.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Clearly, he earned his name long before he got to Wakanda as shown by the kill marks all over his body. He'd already done more than enough killing. He didn't go to Wakanda to kill, but rather, return home and take what's rightfully his. His objective wasn't to kill people, but to take the throne and win the confidence of Wakanda.

The worst thing he did was destroy the heart shaped herb though. I think what would be what Wakandans judge as unforgivable in their culture. They wouldn't willingly recognize his authority because of that.
oh, he definitely wanted to kill the people who've been tormenting his people - the Dragon Flyers were loaded with vibranium weapons for the War Dogs
i know you meant 'kill in wakanda' which is true to a degree but he's not going to let anyone stand in his way - if they die they die
 

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