Marvel Phase 4 (1 Viewer)

Sun Wukong

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The Spider-verse does not excite me in the MCU.
I have a really complicated relationship with the MCU Spider-Man films. I enjoy them, but I also don't think that they're particularly good Spider-Man adaptations. MCU Spidey/Peter Parker feels like he's lacking most of that character's more defining traits.
 

Optimus Prime

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I have a really complicated relationship with the MCU Spider-Man films. I enjoy them, but I also don't think that they're particularly good Spider-Man adaptations. MCU Spidey/Peter Parker feels like he's lacking most of that character's more defining traits.
Really?

I feel they’ve gotten much closer with Tom Holland than either of the other two movie Spider-Men

Not a huge fan of the iron man spidey suit though
 

DaveXA

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I have a really complicated relationship with the MCU Spider-Man films. I enjoy them, but I also don't think that they're particularly good Spider-Man adaptations. MCU Spidey/Peter Parker feels like he's lacking most of that character's more defining traits.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was a character flaw or a storytelling flaw, but I never thought Spidey meshed well with Avengers, outside maybe his relationship with Iron Man, who is now RIP, or so it seems.
 

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Really?

I feel they’ve gotten much closer with Tom Holland than either of the other two movie Spider-Men

Not a huge fan of the iron man spidey suit though
I'm the opposite. I loved the IM/Spidey suit with the legs. Lol. Certainly not traditional, but making it work in space was a good twist imo.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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I get what @Sun Wukong is saying. To me Peter Parker is primarily about wrestling with weighing his responsibility with his desire to have a normal life.

And in the MCU that isn’t as apparent. He’s obviously still a good guy. But he hasn’t had to make the really hard choices yet. He did skip out on his quiz bowl thing, but even that he seemed more motivated to prove something to Stark than trying to do the right thing.
 

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I have a really complicated relationship with the MCU Spider-Man films. I enjoy them, but I also don't think that they're particularly good Spider-Man adaptations. MCU Spidey/Peter Parker feels like he's lacking most of that character's more defining traits.
I feel ya there. For me, I thought Garfield was the perfect Peter Parker even if he wasn't the best Spider-Man (and he may have been that as well of the three). He illustrated most of the traits I expected to see from Peter. Maguire was just meh and Holland is just too childish for my liking.
 

Sun Wukong

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I get what @Sun Wukong is saying. To me Peter Parker is primarily about wrestling with weighing his responsibility with his desire to have a normal life.

And in the MCU that isn’t as apparent. He’s obviously still a good guy. But he hasn’t had to make the really hard choices yet. He did skip out on his quiz bowl thing, but even that he seemed more motivated to prove something to Stark than trying to do the right thing.
Yes, that's it exactly. Spidey is the ultimate hard case hero. He has to make tough choices that often very adversely impact his personal life. He's constantly down on his luck. He has to hustle to pay his rent or buy groceries. He patches his costume with a needle and thread. He doesn't have the luxury or being a billionaire or a god or a cultural icon. The public isn't very fond of him, his name is constantly dragged through the mud, etc. etc. And yet he still goes out and does it every day.

And even though he teams up with the rest of the Marvel Universe, he also kind of exists on the periphery of it. A recurring theme with the character is him feeling overwhelmed or out of place in teamups. This is actually a reason I've NEVER liked him as a member of the Avengers roster in the comics. He just doesn't fit. And to be fair, some of those stories are about how he doesn't fit.

MCU Spidey is hanging out with Tony Stark. He's got access to super science level technology on the regular because of that relationship. So much of what motivates him seems to be specifically a childish devotion to that Stark relationship as opposed to "With great power comes great responsibility." Something the movies have even gone out of their way not to say. He doesn't seem to have a great deal of personal strife (ending of Far From Home aside). He always has someone he can rely on to help him out whether it's Tony or Happy or (presumably) Doctor Strange, where comic Spidey often has to face things without a deux ex machina to intervene.

He just feels like a very different character to me.
 

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At some point, Marvel needs to bring in the FF and Namor and give me a modified Illuminati movie/series/whatever...
 

Sun Wukong

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I feel ya there. For me, I thought Garfield was the perfect Peter Parker even if he wasn't the best Spider-Man. He illustrated most of the traits I expected to see from Peter. Maguire was just meh and Holland is just too childish for my liking.
I agree. Quality of movies aside (they were junk), Garfield was a great choice for the character.

I've always found Tobey Maguire to come across as a doofy creep.
 

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I think Holland is a great fit for the character, but they have chosen to tell a story that doesn't feel like Spiderman. The movies or fun, but if you put him in a different costume and didn't tell me that was Spiderman I wouldn't know it was.
 

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I'm not sure Captain America: Civil War works as a point of comparison. It's really a solo movie in name only (even during production people jokingly called it Avengers 2.5) and it had the luxury of most of those characters having shared the screen a good bit already. It could tell a story with them without doing any heavy lifting. This seems altogether different.
For the most part, I think we have the same here. We had three movies of one and two of the other. Since they are bringing Doc Ock and Gwen Stacy back it means time travel (they're dead) so they are likely dropping Holland in the middle of two movies we have already seen (the two Spiderman 2's).

I don't think they need to introduce or develop any of the characters that have been announced. We know them in much the same way we knew the Avengers.

Of course, that's all speculation, but if done right I think CW is a pretty apt comparison.
 

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Yes, that's it exactly. Spidey is the ultimate hard case hero. He has to make tough choices that often very adversely impact his personal life. He's constantly down on his luck. He has to hustle to pay his rent or buy groceries. He patches his costume with a needle and thread. He doesn't have the luxury or being a billionaire or a god or a cultural icon. The public isn't very fond of him, his name is constantly dragged through the mud, etc. etc. And yet he still goes out and does it every day.

And even though he teams up with the rest of the Marvel Universe, he also kind of exists on the periphery of it. A recurring theme with the character is him feeling overwhelmed or out of place in teamups. This is actually a reason I've NEVER liked him as a member of the Avengers roster in the comics. He just doesn't fit. And to be fair, some of those stories are about how he doesn't fit.

MCU Spidey is hanging out with Tony Stark. He's got access to super science level technology on the regular because of that relationship. So much of what motivates him seems to be specifically a childish devotion to that Stark relationship as opposed to "With great power comes great responsibility." Something the movies have even gone out of their way not to say. He doesn't seem to have a great deal of personal strife (ending of Far From Home aside). He always has someone he can rely on to help him out whether it's Tony or Happy or (presumably) Doctor Strange, where comic Spidey often has to face things without a deux ex machina to intervene.

He just feels like a very different character to me.
good/fair points, but Peter Parker is from the hard scrabble working class neighborhood of Queens - which now only exists in All in the Family reruns - to keep his origin story persona intact he would either need to be from some rust belt area or maybe an immigrant

i thought the Netlix/Marvel shows did a good job of recapturing the 70s grime by emphasizing the destruction/fallout from the Chitauri
but this forces the MCU to make a choice - keep spidey at Daredevil streetlevel or rise him up to Avengers galactic level - and there really isn't a choice since they phased out Hell's Kitchen
i guess i'm fine with that
it was super cool when 70s spidey made his awesome webshooters from his own genius and stuff lying around - now he could probably just google 20 youtube channels of people DIYing those sorts of things

so the tobey maquire story is the one that's closest to the Spidey i grew up with (i'm team MJ all the way), and i did like what Garfield did - i think the Holland spidey is best for the current iteration of the MCU (and i think his and zendaya's chemistry is the best of all the couples)

i view it as similar to Daniel Craig vs Sean Connery (vs roger moore) - Daniel Craig's is the best version by far for the times we are in currently
 

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I think it’s almost better if you didn’t know the comics like myself. My brother grew up on comics and he has this idea in his head of how it should be and then there is me that watches the movies with no past understanding and they seem way more entertaining to me than him.
 
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DaveXA

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good/fair points, but Peter Parker is from the hard scrabble working class neighborhood of Queens - which now only exists in All in the Family reruns - to keep his origin story persona intact he would either need to be from some rust belt area or maybe an immigrant

i thought the Netlix/Marvel shows did a good job of recapturing the 70s grime by emphasizing the destruction/fallout from the Chitauri
but this forces the MCU to make a choice - keep spidey at Daredevil streetlevel or rise him up to Avengers galactic level - and there really isn't a choice since they phased out Hell's Kitchen
i guess i'm fine with that
it was super cool when 70s spidey made his awesome webshooters from his own genius and stuff lying around - now he could probably just google 20 youtube channels of people DIYing those sorts of things

so the tobey maquire story is the one that's closest to the Spidey i grew up with (i'm team MJ all the way), and i did like what Garfield did - i think the Holland spidey is best for the current iteration of the MCU (and i think his and zendaya's chemistry is the best of all the couples)

i view it as similar to Daniel Craig vs Sean Connery (vs roger moore) - Daniel Craig's is the best version by far for the times we are in currently
I don't know why they would phase out Hell's Kitchen. I liked the vibe of the city in the Netflix series and was hoping they would keep that.

Street level Spidey and DD are the best versions of them. I guess that's why I liked the Defenders characters for the most part, as well as Punisher. There's definitely a place for galactic heroes, but I like the Batman/Gotham relationship, and it's a similar vibe with Hell's Kitchen imo.
 

Sun Wukong

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good/fair points, but Peter Parker is from the hard scrabble working class neighborhood of Queens - which now only exists in All in the Family reruns - to keep his origin story persona intact he would either need to be from some rust belt area or maybe an immigrant
Not really. He was never really portrayed as having grown up poverty stricken or anything. Most of his issues are a result of him having to manage both personas and the negative toll it takes on his work/life balance moreso than growing up poor or anything like that. That was never really a part of the character.
 

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