Meeting today about Fed Employees Furlough (1 Viewer)

[Bayouman007]

Government is broken. Revolution is our only choice.

 

[MrVoodoo]

Lets say these cuts go into effect, aside from the personal income loss, how would this country be affected by workers not coming in one day per week?

More specific since the example was given, what if the DoD had workers skip one day per week? What would we see as far as loss of services? How would we be effected? What would not get done?

I work engineering - basically building maintenance... will 1 day of work equate to very much loss... not so much that it'll shut down the gov't from the perspective of the work I'm involved in. Will it cost more in the long run, maybe. Most of what we're doing now has been minimized to preventative maintenance already to try to keep equipment that really should no longer be in operation working. So with less proper maintenance being performed - decreased life of the newer equipment will ensue and the old stuff will just fail. My shop is already a man down, probably about to lose another man.. we've been in a hiring freeze for a while now and being stretched to the bare minimum... it's hard to see us being able to properly maintain the equipment we are responsible for.

Will it be a big impact to the country... maybe not immediately, but it will end up biting us in the butt in the long run.

it's like going into a car factory and saying:
"Guys we're going to lay you off one day a week, so now you'll only be working 32 hours, but right now you're producing 100 cars a day and you have to continue doing that while you're laid off"


You have to remember that there are thousands of different types of jobs out there...

you have the guys who maintain your weather radar stations, so the impact there could be less capability to predict severe weather should a station fail due to poor maintenance.

You have the guys who maintain air traffic... not likely to get furloughed.. but those who maintain the equipment that they use will be laid off

You have contracting officers whose jobs are to ensure contracts are in place for construction, maintenance, and service for buildings and where you have contract airplane maintenance - they oversee those contracts. Reduction in their hours could lead to excess work piled on desks and critical errors in review of the contract that could cost taxpayers dollars (if not the contracting officer themselves).

Engineers who get paid less than their civilian counterparts may make errors in the specs they have on their workload if they're rushing to meet a deadline that those extra 16 hours a week could have helped with... (must remember too that overtime will not be allowed during this time period - as it is seen as a means around the furlough)

Administrative folks who already have a backlog of work due to position cuts and hiring freezes will continue to fall further and further behind - slowing the process for military relocations, retirements, VA benefits for our soldiers, and so much more.

It's something that really in my eyes has little to no immediate or obvious impact, which will have the vast majority of the public asking about the worth of the civilian workforce, and politicians looking at it without an eye toward the future saying that they can make significant cuts with little impact. They won't be considering that all this work is being put off for another day and it's eventually going to bite someone in the butt.


it's kind of hard to fathom 132 Million man hours lost (figuring on 750,000 DoD jobs) in the DoD alone... there are more in the other agencies that will be impacted.

 

[feoinfunroe]

I work for a contractor for NOAA. We are getting ready for hurricane bouy refurbishing, not sure how this will effect us yet.

I work for a contractor for the Dept. of the Interior (National Park Service) and I have not even heard anyone mention it. I found this but there's no link to the memo that I can find. Whether-or-not it will affect our on-going restoration project, I don't know. I'll ask the boss on Monday.

 

[MrVoodoo]

I work for a contractor for the Dept. of the Interior (National Park Service) and I have not even heard anyone mention it. I found this but there's no link to the memo that I can find. Whether-or-not it will affect our on-going restoration project, I don't know. I'll ask the boss on Monday.

Typically contract work has already been funded and agreed upon. Most contractors should not feel any of this... other than maybe additional work in the future to help the workforce recover from their downtime lol. I oversee a 100k/yr contract that's fully funded for the year - they won't be touched. Now if it is incrementally funded, there's a chance (probably slight) that they could be effected.. but that would mean the contracting officer would have to create a modification to the contract to reflect the changes and reduction in the agree upon work/cost.

Personally - I would think that working for a Gov't servicing contractor you should be fine for the duration of your current contract.

 

[feoinfunroe]

Typically contract work has already been funded and agreed upon. Most contractors should not feel any of this... other than maybe additional work in the future to help the workforce recover from their downtime lol. I oversee a 100k/yr contract that's fully funded for the year - they won't be touched. Now if it is incrementally funded, there's a chance (probably slight) that they could be effected.. but that would mean the contracting officer would have to create a modification to the contract to reflect the changes and reduction in the agree upon work/cost.

Personally - I would think that working for a Gov't servicing contractor you should be fine for the duration of your current contract.

Thanks, boss...

Really, that's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. When I asked if what we are doing is a "stimulus project", I was told no, the money was from "the routine budget of the DOI". Oh, well, it's certainly stimulating me, anyway.

Again, thanks for your response.

 

[crosswatt]

I am not in a Fed job nor work for a company with any Govt contracts so my job is not effected by all of this. Good for you being in a position to absorb it. Just enjoy the extra time with family. At least it's in the Spring and Summer. If I had a choice to take a 20% cut for a 22 week 4 day work week I would be a happy camper. Surely most others can find away to do the same. Cut out cable, eating out, etc for a while.

The same time that spouses who work in the school system also stop getting paychecks. There really isn't a good way to spin this. And there is no legitimate reason why it should even be a discussion, except for political dysfunction.

 

[dtc]

this potential sequester 5 days away while the President plays golf in Hawaii and the Congress off on vacation. We have seen the national deficit increase from 7 to 12 trillion dollars in one year (1st year of the Obama Administration),

.

Completely false.

 

[superchuck500]

Typically contract work has already been funded and agreed upon. Most contractors should not feel any of this... other than maybe additional work in the future to help the workforce recover from their downtime lol. I oversee a 100k/yr contract that's fully funded for the year - they won't be touched. Now if it is incrementally funded, there's a chance (probably slight) that they could be effected.. but that would mean the contracting officer would have to create a modification to the contract to reflect the changes and reduction in the agree upon work/cost.

Personally - I would think that working for a Gov't servicing contractor you should be fine for the duration of your current contract.

I think that's right to the extent that contracts are firm fixed-price. On the others, incrementally funded contracts could see changes and I would even speculate that fully funded hour-based service contracts could be targets for reduction because while the contract may be funded, that's an in house budget matter - the money can still be pulled back theoretically (unlike in FFP).

The question will depend entirely on the agency and how much planning they have done - along with how important the program is. Contract savings can be attractive because they don't require the agency to furlough employees or perform some of the other administrative tasks related to cutting in-house.

I work for a contractor for the Dept. of the Interior (National Park Service) and I have not even heard anyone mention it. I found this but there's no link to the memo that I can find. Whether-or-not it will affect our on-going restoration project, I don't know. I'll ask the boss on Monday.

I would imagine that a restoration project is firm-fixed price. If so, it's hard to imagine any impact at all.

 

[superchuck500]

I work engineering - basically building maintenance... will 1 day of work equate to very much loss... not so much that it'll shut down the gov't from the perspective of the work I'm involved in. Will it cost more in the long run, maybe. Most of what we're doing now has been minimized to preventative maintenance already to try to keep equipment that really should no longer be in operation working. So with less proper maintenance being performed - decreased life of the newer equipment will ensue and the old stuff will just fail. My shop is already a man down, probably about to lose another man.. we've been in a hiring freeze for a while now and being stretched to the bare minimum... it's hard to see us being able to properly maintain the equipment we are responsible for.

Will it be a big impact to the country... maybe not immediately, but it will end up biting us in the butt in the long run.

it's like going into a car factory and saying:
"Guys we're going to lay you off one day a week, so now you'll only be working 32 hours, but right now you're producing 100 cars a day and you have to continue doing that while you're laid off"


You have to remember that there are thousands of different types of jobs out there...

you have the guys who maintain your weather radar stations, so the impact there could be less capability to predict severe weather should a station fail due to poor maintenance.

You have the guys who maintain air traffic... not likely to get furloughed.. but those who maintain the equipment that they use will be laid off

You have contracting officers whose jobs are to ensure contracts are in place for construction, maintenance, and service for buildings and where you have contract airplane maintenance - they oversee those contracts. Reduction in their hours could lead to excess work piled on desks and critical errors in review of the contract that could cost taxpayers dollars (if not the contracting officer themselves).

Engineers who get paid less than their civilian counterparts may make errors in the specs they have on their workload if they're rushing to meet a deadline that those extra 16 hours a week could have helped with... (must remember too that overtime will not be allowed during this time period - as it is seen as a means around the furlough)

Administrative folks who already have a backlog of work due to position cuts and hiring freezes will continue to fall further and further behind - slowing the process for military relocations, retirements, VA benefits for our soldiers, and so much more.

It's something that really in my eyes has little to no immediate or obvious impact, which will have the vast majority of the public asking about the worth of the civilian workforce, and politicians looking at it without an eye toward the future saying that they can make significant cuts with little impact. They won't be considering that all this work is being put off for another day and it's eventually going to bite someone in the butt.


it's kind of hard to fathom 132 Million man hours lost (figuring on 750,000 DoD jobs) in the DoD alone... there are more in the other agencies that will be impacted.

I think you make a really good point here - that the vast work of the federal government will continue but accomplishing it will fall on fewer man-hours. The true federal workforce professionals getting the work done . . . the contracting officers, the bean-counters, the skilled professionals (the engineers, the lawyers, the scientists) will have the same amount of work to do in most cases (in some cases even more) but less time to do it in if they're furloughed.

It is highly likely that this reality will come with a cost. Mistakes will be made and other realities will occur. These things will have financial costs.

Another impact is the on the planning side. Agencies have been going through these fire drills of shutdowns and sequester for more than a year now. They don't just sit and wait for the event to happen - there is hard working, intense planning that must occur. And all of this pulls the agency officials away from their agency's central, mission-based work.

It's ridiculous.

 

[KCBagHead]

Our SES admonished everyone yesterday not to try to telework on that day, or to "call in" or to just deal with it. THere has to be some degradation of service in some way,

I know when I was in Public Affairs, even when I was on leave or military reserve duty -- I would call in and talk to folks just so I was up to speed with everythying when I came back -- we are not supposed to do that on furlough.

 

[MrVoodoo]

Right - you are Forbidden from doing anything at all on a furlough day. Which is likely to be difficult for a lot of us... me particularly - I get called very often with questions about work related stuff, but I could (theoretically and unlikely) get punished for answering my phone to answer a question on a furlough day.

The big thing to remember (sadly) is that if your work isn't at least somewhat negatively impacted by this, there may be justification in the future to do a manpower audit on your office. I do think that there are plenty of manpower audits to be had out there that are well justified - but I know my particular office, it's a constant struggle with a man down (albeit if I could hire someone qualified to do the job instead of training them up I might could reduce my manning.. but until I can pay equivalent to someone working outside federal service I'll have to continue hiring inexperienced individuals who need lots of training constantly).

Superchuck - sounds like perhaps you're in or involved in the contracting world. I've been putting my resume in lately to try to make that transformation. Need to feel like my Business degree is worth paying for lol.

 

[superchuck500]

Right - you are Forbidden from doing anything at all on a furlough day. Which is likely to be difficult for a lot of us... me particularly - I get called very often with questions about work related stuff, but I could (theoretically and unlikely) get punished for answering my phone to answer a question on a furlough day.

The big thing to remember (sadly) is that if your work isn't at least somewhat negatively impacted by this, there may be justification in the future to do a manpower audit on your office. I do think that there are plenty of manpower audits to be had out there that are well justified - but I know my particular office, it's a constant struggle with a man down (albeit if I could hire someone qualified to do the job instead of training them up I might could reduce my manning.. but until I can pay equivalent to someone working outside federal service I'll have to continue hiring inexperienced individuals who need lots of training constantly).

Superchuck - sounds like perhaps you're in or involved in the contracting world. I've been putting my resume in lately to try to make that transformation. Need to feel like my Business degree is worth paying for lol.

Some of the work I do is in federal contracting (litigation mostly). I'm sure you can make the switch - you always hear about the acquisition workforce needing people as the ranks are top-heavy with retiring boomer generation who are retiring.

The reason why you are forbidden from working on furlough days is because allowing it would possibly open the door for unpaid wages claims if workers worked because the 'work had to be done' and then sought payment. Those laws are very worker-friendly - so the policy has to be absolutely no work.

 

[saintfan]

Completely false.

I stand corrected. It went from $10 trillion to $12 in 2010. It is currently $16+ trillon.

 

[melman]

There is no one person that is indispensable. You take vacation that is preapproved as long as someone can fill in for you. Yes, some firm decisions may have to wait. A schedule will be done to limit total anarchy. I would prefer my unpaid day to be a Monday or Friday, but you can bet that won't happen.

 

[Get in the Carr]

There is no one person that is indispensable. You take vacation that is preapproved as long as someone can fill in for you. Yes, some firm decisions may have to wait. A schedule will be done to limit total anarchy. I would prefer my unpaid day to be a Monday or Friday, but you can bet that won't happen.

You can't use leave on a furlough.Also, some jobs may not be deemed essential to many but the whole point of this is to save money. In the long run it may cost more money. The government is getting smarter and people who could go work somewhere else for 6 figures are coming to work for the government. I personally know of some really skilled professionals who are going to look somewhere else if the furlough happens. Civilian salaries are a tiny sliver of the pie and it disgusts many civil servants that the public blame them for the deficit. It's a double edge sword. Brain drain is a culture killer in any profession. We need to be recruiting
the best and the brightest; not driving them away.