[Mega Merged] How long are Dennis and Pete’s leashes? (1 Viewer)

You do realize we were missing:

1. Our starting QB
2. Our starting RB
3. Our starting WR
4. Our starting LG

I'm as frustrated as anyone, but this isn't all DA.
Actually I thought AD looked better, Murray ran better, and the other two were not that critical in this lost. The team started off very slow, mistakes, undisciplined. Then what really sucks is they overcome all of that to take the lead only for these jerk officials to step-in and take it all away. The calls on that one drive were awful to say the least.
 
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The play calling and offense is so different it obviously is Allen telling Pete what offense he wants and Pete is calling the overall scheme that makes the head coach happy. I can’t imagine Pete doesn’t leave after this season as this isn’t what he has shown before.

The thing is I can handle injuries. I can handle being beat by the other better team. What I can’t handle is the idiotic penalties, the fumbles, the drops, and none of it is any different in the last 4 games. Same mistakes are being made. That’s on Allen as this wasn’t the case with roughly the same players under Payton

I do think Loomis should be paying attention and if these things are not fixed, Allen has to go. Admit the mistake and move on.
 
Realistically they’ll get the whole season at the least unless the wheels completely fall off. We’re about quarter of the way into this season, I don’t see a mid-season firing happening unless we’re 1-7 or something along those lines at some point.

Personally I think mid-season firings are stupid anyway, there are generally no long term candidates available mid-season and whoever takes over probably feels like a lame duck. You saw last year the with the Raiders that they played pretty well for Bisaccia when he replaced Gruden but they still moved on for Josh McDaniels who looks about as good as he did the last time he was HC. Now I get special teams coordinators don’t usually get HC jobs so maybe that’s a flawed comparison but I still don’t think many interim coaches get seriously considered for the position after this HC gets fired.
 
Nobody saw the talent that we came into the season with starting off with this sort of record, these stats, and these penalties. This goes beyond the players, and lands square on the shoulders of the men calling the plays (not Loomis).

With that said, what will need to happen for them to get pulled, or for changes to be made.

IMHO, you can’t go with the excuse “you can’t change a head coach after one year.” Look at what is going on in Jacksonville for proof of that.

You can’t say “nobody will want to come to a team that fires it’s coaches after one year.” This isn’t the Jets, 49ers, or some random team with poor talent. That doesn’t apply here.

Where do we go from here?
This is no doubt a leadership and decision making issue at HC, OC and QB. I would hope if we go something like 4-13 or 5-12 that we move on from DA. Too much talent to let this happen.
The only reason he might get a pass is because of the issues at QB.
 
I think some fans are struggling with the reality of post-Brees New Orleans Saints football. It may have been naive to think there wouldn't be some hardship trying to find the next guy to step in as the franchise QB and also coming to terms with the fact that they're going to need to mold a new identity, not hold on to past ones.

I think it is way too early to move on from Dennis Allen after 4 games, 3 of which were back to back to back division opponents which are always brutal. Maybe bringing Pete back to run the offense was a bad idea, maybe not. I think with the personnel we have right now, it makes more sense to be a little more simplistic and lean towards being a power run, play action type team than what looks to me like running the same stuff Sean and Drew ran when they were here. Most QBs can't run an offense as flawlessly as Drew did for so many years... most aren't hall-of-famers and will do some things well but mediocre or below average at other things
There is nothing “it’s hard to be the man that follows the man” about this situation. There is no “This wouldn’t happen if Drew and Sean were here.” There is no “new Saints fans don’t remember how bad things once were.”

This is just great football talent covering up glaring holes. This staff was poorly constructed as it needed a guy like Sean to keep the trains running on time. Sean isn’t here, and as such crap is slipping through the cracks. A coach that came in and built out his own staff would have been better. Instead we are watching a team put new wine in an old bottle, and it shows.

We don’t need Brees to like results (See how happy we all were with Dalton’s performance), all we have needed to win these last few weeks would have been a healthy quarterback, and instead the coaching staff trotted out a broken quarterback.
 
This is no doubt a leadership and decision making issue at HC, OC and QB. I would hope if we go something like 4-13 or 5-12 that we move on from DA. Too much talent to let this happen.
The only reason he might get a pass is because of the issues at QB.
The issue at quarterback is self inflicted. If he puts Dalton in last week or the week before we might be looking at .500, instead the joke is what’s in our hands.
 
Realistically they’ll get the whole season at the least unless the wheels completely fall off. We’re about quarter of the way into this season, I don’t see a mid-season firing happening unless we’re 1-7 or something along those lines at some point.

Personally I think mid-season firings are stupid anyway, there are generally no long term candidates available mid-season and whoever takes over probably feels like a lame duck. You saw last year the with the Raiders that they played pretty well for Bisaccia when he replaced Gruden but they still moved on for Josh McDaniels who looks about as good as he did the last time he was HC. Now I get special teams coordinators don’t usually get HC jobs so maybe that’s a flawed comparison but I still don’t think many interim coaches get seriously considered for the position after this HC gets fired.
Raiders fans I talk to are upset the team didn’t keep Bisaccia, and instead went for a Bill Belicieck guy (who never pan out).
 
Raiders fans I talk to are upset the team didn’t keep Bisaccia, and instead went for a Bill Belicieck guy (who never pan out).
Same here, one of my friends is a raiders fan, he hates Josh McDaniels already.
 
We are now 1-3 and this team has started every game slowly, commits ridiculous penalties regularly and the offense (for the majority) has not looked like an NFL offense. It is clear that Dennis Allen is not good enough to be head coach of the Saints and Loomis needs to fire him once this season is done. This team is loaded with talent on both sides of the ball and yet we are playing like a 6 win team. That is on him and if we want to be good again he needs to go quickly.

To add to the above we, somewhat stupidly, traded our 2023 1st because we expected to be a playoff team. We are miles off that and a coaching reset is needed. Our future depends on these things happening this off-season:
1. Sean Payton needs to be traded for, at the minimum, a 1st round pick.
2. Allen and Carmichael need to be fired.

Also, the main word thrown at us during the off-season was “continuity”. The whole point of hiring Allen was to continue winning. He has taken us backwards despite having a better roster. That’s why he needs to go.
Let's see what happens. This team is more undisciplined than we have see. It feels different. People knew when they played us we were going to be physical and by enlarge we would not beat ourselves. That's on DA. People was a back-up to Sean. We are seeing how this all plays out right before our eyes.
 
The play calling and offense is so different it obviously is Allen telling Pete what offense he wants and Pete is calling the overall scheme that makes the head coach happy. I can’t imagine Pete doesn’t leave after this season as this isn’t what he has shown before.

The thing is I can handle injuries. I can handle being beat by the other better team. What I can’t handle is the idiotic penalties, the fumbles, the drops, and none of it is any different in the last 4 games. Same mistakes are being made. That’s on Allen as this wasn’t the case with roughly the same players under Payton

I do think Loomis should be paying attention and if these things are not fixed, Allen has to go. Admit the mistake and move on.
This is what I'm saying. Andy played great today and I'm not taking anything away from him but the truth is, this game has played just like every other game. The only difference is we got a 2nd quarter TD and we won't hear about the opposing defense going into a soft zone in the 4th.
 
Nobody saw the talent that we came into the season with starting off with this sort of record, these stats, and these penalties. This goes beyond the players, and lands square on the shoulders of the men calling the plays (not Loomis).

With that said, what will need to happen for them to get pulled, or for changes to be made.

IMHO, you can’t go with the excuse “you can’t change a head coach after one year.” Look at what is going on in Jacksonville for proof of that.

You can’t say “nobody will want to come to a team that fires it’s coaches after one year.” This isn’t the Jets, 49ers, or some random team with poor talent. That doesn’t apply here.

Where do we go from here?

3 years minimum. The defense stood up today and gave us a shot. Bad calls and stupid penalties were killers without your core offensive players.

Olave is a stud. We may not win 13 games this year, but at some point it's going to click. The big PI calls were killers and the slow start, but at least it was better than last week.
 
That’s just how the process works. Doesn’t mean Allen is the source. If it persists it means he can’t fix it.

So a guy with a .225 career winning % isn’t responsible for his teams success/failure…. for how long? How long until it’s him? He is now .250 here. And the largest 4th quarter comeback in saints history away from being .000. With the raiders, it was because no one could win with the raiders. At some point the buck has to stop with DA.
 

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