Menthol Cigarettes - Should be banned or nah? (1 Viewer)

Should Menthol cigs be banned?

  • Yes, we need to protect people from themselves

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • Yes, they are more dangerous than other kinds

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • No, menthol cig ban is racist

    Votes: 12 28.6%
  • No; my body, my choice

    Votes: 27 64.3%

  • Total voters
    42

DaveXA

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Stop trying to banning stuff.

Sincerely,

People that will get it whether it's legal or not since the beginning of time

Sure, but the issue isn't really legality in the first place. The issue is how do we protect our kids from crap marketed directly to them?

Fwiw, I don't think menthol or any other flavored smokes should be banned or restricted. I do think their marketing to kids should be severely restricted though.
 
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tomwaits

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Sure, but the issue isn't really legality in the first place. The issue is how do we protect our kids from crap marketed directly to them?

Fwiw, I don't think menthol or any other flavored smokes should be banned or restricted. I do think their marketing to kids should be severely restricted though.

Can you give examples of menthol cigs being marketed to kids?
 

DaveXA

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Can you give examples of menthol cigs being marketed to kids?
I can't, but then, I don't smoke either, so I wouldn't know if they are or not. From the little of what I've read, it seems to be people looking for something to complain about rather than a legitimate problem.

Cigarette advertising is already severely restricted as it is, so I'm not sure where the marketing to kids is coming from. Regardless, any sort of marketing to kids shouldn't be happening at any point.
 

Infoman

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Sure, but the issue isn't really legality in the first place. The issue is how do we protect our kids from crap marketed directly to them?

Fwiw, I don't think menthol or any other flavored smokes should be banned or restricted. I do think their marketing to kids should be severely restricted though.

By being a good and present parent that loves and communicates with them.

Of course not, it's silly. Banning things that there is a high demand for, or that satisfies addiction, or that creates a sense of comfort... Never ever works in this country. It just creates a void in legal supply - which gets filled by opportunistic people willing to do illegal things to fill it.

Until we get past the point where we want to point fingers, and demonize symptoms... and never address the actual cause of the problems... none of this means anything... It's just fodder to raise the hair on peoples' arses and distracts them from ever addressing the root cause of the issue.

I know people have to see this... So I am not sure why we always fall for the "Let's ban stuff" fluff. It literally never works.
 

Denzien

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It would be easier to just raise the tax on them high enough to cover the public cost of healthcare associated with the perils associated with smoking.

If you're dumb enough to smoke at $20 per pack then so be it as long as it funds treatment.
Punitive taxes in an attempt to engineer society? What could possibly go wrong?
 
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tomwaits

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It would be easier to just raise the tax on them high enough to cover the public cost of healthcare associated with the perils associated with smoking.

If you're dumb enough to smoke at $20 per pack then so be it as long as it funds treatment.

Do you think this could cause a black market where people will sell non-taxed cigarettes? Do you think there could be poor outcomes by policing the black market cigarettes where say, police end up killing a man? Eric Garner's family would think there could be a problem here.
 

Denzien

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Do you think this could cause a black market where people will sell non-taxed cigarettes? Do you think there could be poor outcomes by policing the black market cigarettes where say, police end up killing a man? Eric Garner's family would think there could be a problem here.
I totally understand where that mindset comes from; I had it myself when I was younger. "Just a few more laws and all of our problems will be solved"
But they never are. We just create new problems - often as the unforeseen consequences of the solution to some completely unrelated problem.

Want to ban alcohol? Create gangsters!
Got gangsters? Violate the 2nd Amendment!

Want to put a salary cap on workers during WWII to 'save money for the war effort'? Create a dependency on near money benefits and employer sponsored heath insurance!
Want to give the AMA control over the supply of new licensed doctors every year? Create a shortage of doctors, and rapidly inflating healthcare prices hidden to most by the now ubiquitous health insurance!

Want to give everyone a low interest loan to go to college? Congratulations, Universities are more expensive now because of the demand, and kids who weren't cut out for a college education now have expensive loans they can't pay back - kids who should have been learning a valuable trade instead with a paid apprenticeship.

Want to ban drugs to stop kids from doing them? Create drug cartels, militarize the police, stigmatize drug users so they won't seek help for their addiction, and murder them!

Society should be what people do - not what a small group of elected officials believe society should be, who must create laws to force their ideas onto others.
Just remember that there is no law so trivial the government isn't willing to murder you to enforce it. Maybe they'll just rough you up a bit or shoot your faithful canine companion, but the threat is always there. And somehow we need more laws?

(Preemptive edit: I'm not against laws - I'm just against trying to engineer society via the threat of state violence)
 
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Dago

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Problem is that our constitution and our freedoms are predicated on having a society with a certain level of personal responsibility and respect for others which is sorely lacking
 

Denzien

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Problem is that our constitution and our freedoms are predicated on having a society with a certain level of personal responsibility and respect for others which is sorely lacking
And so adopting authoritarian measures is justified?
 

St. Widge

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Can you give examples of menthol cigs being marketed to kids?

I mean, the major brand of menthols is "Kool." What kid wouldn't want to smoke cool cigarettes?

I'm only half-serious, but I do think that does kind of markets to kids whether intentional or not.

Anyway, I wouldn't ban anything including cocaine, weed, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Just makes laws that require actual effective warnings regarding the nature of the product and let the civil legal system handle products that either don't provide an adequate warning or are not fit for their intended purpose.
 
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Denzien

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I mean, the major brand of menthols is "Kool." What kid wouldn't want to smoke cool cigarettes?

I'm only half-serious, but I do think that does kind of markets to kids whether intentional or not.

Anyway, I wouldn't ban anything including cocaine, weed, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Just makes laws that require actual effective warnings regarding the nature of the product and let the civil legal system handle products that either don't provide an adequate warning or are not fit for their intended purpose.

If we redirected our prohibition efforts and dollars towards rehabilitation instead of militarization against an abstract enemy, I think we would eventually be much better off. But there would be massive resistance from the people who benefit from these terrible laws. We already see the beneficiaries of the prison system warning us about the perils of decriminalization.

Anyway, menthols are trash. Cloves are where it's at. Kids just don't know.
 

Consiglieri

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The race stuff is nonsense. This is about kids. The whole purpose of menthol is to get kids chemically addicted to the product before they are old enough to make an adult choice. I'm way more Libertarian than most people but protecting kids from addiction that becomes a drain on our health system is one of the few things that government is for.
 

Consiglieri

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If anything, they should probably come up with a way to remove nicotine from tobacco. If that'd happen, it'd make cigarette smoking almost non-existent.
The manufacturers would never do that. The nicotine is the whole point. Return customers who don't want to return but their body makes them. What a cash cow, why give that up?
 

St. Widge

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The race stuff is nonsense. This is about kids. The whole purpose of menthol is to get kids chemically addicted to the product before they are old enough to make an adult choice. I'm way more Libertarian than most people but protecting kids from addiction that becomes a drain on our health system is one of the few things that government is for.

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with this, but out of curiosity, what do you see as the source of this government power/obligation?
 

Dago

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And so adopting authoritarian measures is justified?
Not at all. I think we are just pretty much screwed and will end up in an authoritarian state regardless because that is what will fill that vacuum

What I think will happen isn't what I want to happen
 

Consiglieri

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I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with this, but out of curiosity, what do you see as the source of this government power/obligation?
Whatever the source of the whole FDA was. I got a B- in con law but I think the "interstate commerce" clause is the the all-purpose answer to anything you don't like.

The founding fathers being largely tobacco farmers, I doubt you could find an "originalist" argument for it.
 

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