Mike and Mike ["Elite" QB Discussion] (1 Viewer)

JimmyB1775

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Its nice to hear that during this "Elite Joe Flacco" debate, Brees isn't a question. Of course, he's at the end of the "Rogers, Brady, Manning, Brees" sentence. But he stays there. They're debating Eli, Big Ben and now Joe as the runners up.

Here's my question coming from a homer... Drew was elite before the SB, right? All these other guys, their SB wins put them over the top. Drew had been great for a number of years before that, am I wrong?
 
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Professor

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In my opinion, you are not wrong. He had already become only the second QB to surpass the 5,000 yard mark before he won the Super Bowl, something Marino never did.

What I love is how predictable the press is. Every year, if the winning QB hasn't already been accepted as an "elite" QB, he becomes one. My wife and I were at a friend's house to watch the game (okay, the women watched mostly the commercials), and my friend and I commented that on several of those scampers, Flacco seemed to just heave the ball downfield, and it was fortunately caught by one of his teammates, usually Boldin. We both commented on that--and we were both hoping Baltimore would win, so it wasn't a "we want the other team to win" flavored critique. One good postseason does not an elite quarterback make; it takes at least two seasons of great play in which said QB overcomes obstacles to win important games, and even then accuracy and leadership enter the equation. Flacco has been a good QB since he was drafted, but I would not put him in the "elite" category yet. Of course, the members of the press are ******* themselves in their praise and adulation.
 

insidejob

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Its nice to hear that during this "Elite Joe Flacco" debate, Brees isn't a question. Of course, he's at the end of the "Rogers, Brady, Manning, Brees" sentence. But he stays there. They're debating Eli, Big Ben and now Joe as the runners up.

Here's my question coming from a homer... Drew was elite before the SB, right? All these other guys, their SB wins put them over the top. Drew had been great for a number of years before that, am I wrong?
This whole "elite" discussion has grown tiresome.

The guys who are 1-5 are interchangeable, as well as the guys who are 6-10, 11-15, and the bottom half of the league pretty much all suck equally.

THe way I look at quarterbacks is, "do you make the guys around you good or do you need good receivers to be considered 'elite' yourself?"

Flacco was crap before Boldin and Smith. Roethlisberger isn't that good with a terrifying trio of receivers.

Drew got Meachem a mega deal in San Diego where he was subsequently benched. Devery Henderson has stayed in the league this long because of Drew. Lance Moore was a nobody before Drew. Colston would have succeeded anywhere, but the 9-12 connection is something special.

Look at Rodgers, Manning and Brady. They all make decent players good, and good players great just like Drew.

Screw Flacco.
 
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JimmyB1775

JimmyB1775

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In my profession - and many others - we have a saying "grow where planted". Sometimes, you get a position that is a crap job, but your performance as the assistant janitor is more important that the job itself. Joe Flacco has been given a job and thats to manage games and let his defense tell the HC how many points don't need to be scored. I don't think Joe Flacco can do what all of the other 4800+ passing yard QB's do. He's really good at what he's asked to do. I just don't see how a HC would throw away talent if its there. If Drew or Rogers played for Baltimore, wouldn't they throw more?

I've also seen him have a lot of WIDE OPEN receivers. Broken coverage and such.
 

SaintsJunkie

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P.Manning and Brees were elite before the SB, they are the only two that still would be without a SB ring.

as far as Joe, well not close, he chunks up the deep ball to covered WR's and they make playsl. He doesn't find the open guy, he just chunks it up and hopes the WR can make the play, and he has some good ones that happen to do that in the playoffs
 

HouseCall

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Its nice to hear that during this "Elite Joe Flacco" debate, Brees isn't a question. Of course, he's at the end of the "Rogers, Brady, Manning, Brees" sentence. But he stays there. They're debating Eli, Big Ben and now Joe as the runners up.

Here's my question coming from a homer... Drew was elite before the SB, right? All these other guys, their SB wins put them over the top. Drew had been great for a number of years before that, am I wrong?
To me, it always seemed like Brees was not consitently put in the elite category until after the 2011 season. He'd put up crazy good numers prior to the Super Bowl, but had not really won anything (12-6, 7-9, 8-8) were his records as a starter for the the Saints prior to 09. Since then, he's won a bunch of games and broken a whole bunch of records and won a Super Bowl, so the media almost had to put him in the discussion.

Flacco is an interesting case. He now has a Super Bowl whcih always perks up discussion of "elite" status. But something I didn't know is that he has 9 post-season wins, which is as many as Peyton Manning. It doesn't make him a lock for elite status, but it is a good argument.
 

los226

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Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers have one thing in common. They all have had crappy defenses through out recent years. It's easy to get W's and make the playoffs when you have an elite defense on your side.

When Tom Brady had an elite defense they won three superbowls.
 

Denzien

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Flacco is a good QB. I would not trust him to go out and "win a game", but I would definitely trust him to not "lose a game".
 

Saint_Ward

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I don't remember when Drew and "elite" started coming up. Sometime around 2009. Some guys were beating the drum in 2007/2008, but it really picked up while we were going undefeated and destroyed the Patriots.

In all honesty, it doesn't matter. I agree with insidejob, the "elite" talk is over played. Does the QB win you games or lose you games? That's all that matters.

For Flacco, he's going to get paid, but I expect the Ravens to be smart. I don't think they'll focus on the 20M annually, but they'll just give him a lot of up front money and make it a 7-8 year contract, instead of a 5 year one. Get him signed for "life", so to speak, and make his cap numbers reasonable, but give him a ton of bonus money.
 

HouseCall

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It's interesting how the media sees the whole "elite" quarterback debate. I remember Rodgers getting thrust into elite status really early in his career -- even prior to his Super Bowl. He's undoubtedly a gifted athlete with a rocket arm, but I found it odd how qucikly he was anointed "elite".
You'll hear the media talk about his MVP season as "possibly the greatest season for a quarterback in league history". That was also the year Brees broke just about every quarterback record on the books.
Brees almost seems like a reluctant addition by the media. Maybe it's the ints or the fact that his numbers are so insane that his inclusion almost seems too obvious.
 

TechDawg09

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An argument over a word.

Sure Flacco can be elite, but can he be SUPER elite? If this is the crap that attracts listeners, sports radio is a depressing place.
 

birdog

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To me, being an "elite" QB means playing outstanding football, and being able to carry the team, when it needs it the most. But that has to be a "lifetime" achievement?

No!

Every year is different, b/c of new influx of players. It could very well be that one year a QB plays elite football.....like last year Eli Manning for example......then have a very mediocre season the next season. Is Eli elite?

And here my answer is....he was last year, but not this year! Great QBs do not play great football every year, some years are much better than others....just ask Drew Brees. There is a constant good play over the years, but that is rarely considered, and only revisited when talking about HOF status.

If we look at Flacco, his game is great when it matters the most.....postseason. He is absolutely great in postseason....and for a long time. That sets him apart from the others...like Eli Manning. It puts him in that elite status, and the only thing missing was the hardware. He has it now, and therefore he is today an elite QB.

From now on the spotlight is on him. If he continues his great performances, he undoubtedly will leave his mark as an elite QB....if not....he will be remembered as Eli Manning.....above average yes, but not elite...
 

SaintsFanInLA

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There is no question in my mind that Flacco is an elite QB. He was one dropped sure game-winning TD pass followed by a missed chip-shot FG away from going to the Super Bowl last year. He has won at least one playoff game EVERY year of his career so far.

This guy is at the helm and doesn't make many mistakes. What is he 11 TDs and no INTs this post-season? He won the Super Bowl and SB MVP award. He is an elite QB and I would DEFINITELY take him over Big Ben, easily.

Is he on the level of Brees? Nope. Brees, Brady and Rodgers are the top 3 but Flacco is elite, IMHO.
 

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