Mora tenure vs. Payton tenure

HobBeh

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I don't get to watch the game today, so I was reminiscing about the Mora years. Of course Payton is the #1 coach around here, but how much separates him from Mora at this point? Perhaps the big strike against Mora is he couldn't win a playoff game in Indy either, but on the other hand we haven't seen Payton as a head coach anywhere else (without Brees). I will just look at what both accomplished with the Saints. Some might argue that Haslett ought to be thrown into the mix since he at least won a playoff game, but as I will later post, Payton and he did not have to face the strong NFC that Mora did.


Mora made it into his 11th season before the meltdown. Payton seems to be here at least for at least his 11th season (loss of 2012).

Mora brought the Saints to their first winning season, playoff appearance, and division title. Payton brought the Saints to their first conference championship and Super Bowl championship.

Mora's teams allowed the fewest points in the league in back to back seasons. Payton's teams scored the most points in the league in back to back seasons (interestingly not in 2011).

Mora had the best linebacking group ever for almost 8 of his seasons. Payton has had a HoF QB for all of his seasons.

Mora had a football for almost all of his seasons; he did not have the final say on personnel when Finks was here. Payton has had an accountant GM for almost all of his seasons; he should have the final say on personnel.

Mora's teams were built on franchise that had good defenses but bad offenses. Finks and he made them great defenses and at least solid offenses out of drafting and USFL pickups. Payton's teams were built with an excellent first year of drafting and the best free agency signing ever if also a huge risk.

Mora had the the 49ers the NFC West, winning three Super Bowls over his tenure plus thad the best record in the league in two others. Twice Mora's teams had a record that was better than all of the AFC but could not win the NFC West. Payton was able to get a first round bye with only 10 wins. Only the Panthers have made it to the Super Bowl out of the NFC South during his tenure.

Mora had four playoff seasons. Payton has five. Mora had two winning seasons that weren't playoff teams. Payton didn't win the division when a team with a losing record did.

Key personnel decisions were part of the downfall of both. Mora's teams had the disgruntled Hebert addressed poorly by the Walsh trade. Payton's teams have had bad free agent signings that were either cut causing dead money or under-performing if retained.

At the end of Mora's tenure, his teams reversed with good offenses and bad defenses as there were major personnel changes due to aging rosters and the beginning of free agency. Paytons teams have retained very good offenses (with the same HOF QB) but have had historically bad defenses.

I guess in closing, if Payton is #1, Mora #2, and Haslett #3, how far apart is it? Is Mora closer to Haslett or to Payton?
 

Cajun Chat

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I don't get to watch the game today, so I was reminiscing about the Mora years. Of course Payton is the #1 coach around here, but how much separates him from Mora at this point? Perhaps the big strike against Mora is he couldn't win a playoff game in Indy either, but on the other hand we haven't seen Payton as a head coach anywhere else (without Brees). I will just look at what both accomplished with the Saints. Some might argue that Haslett ought to be thrown into the mix since he at least won a playoff game, but as I will later post, Payton and he did not have to face the strong NFC that Mora did.


Mora made it into his 11th season before the meltdown. Payton seems to be here at least for at least his 11th season (loss of 2012).

Mora brought the Saints to their first winning season, playoff appearance, and division title. Payton brought the Saints to their first conference championship and Super Bowl championship.

Mora's teams allowed the fewest points in the league in back to back seasons. Payton's teams scored the most points in the league in back to back seasons (interestingly not in 2011).

Mora had the best linebacking group ever for almost 8 of his seasons. Payton has had a HoF QB for all of his seasons.

Mora had a football for almost all of his seasons; he did not have the final say on personnel when Finks was here. Payton has had an accountant GM for almost all of his seasons; he should have the final say on personnel.

Mora's teams were built on franchise that had good defenses but bad offenses. Finks and he made them great defenses and at least solid offenses out of drafting and USFL pickups. Payton's teams were built with an excellent first year of drafting and the best free agency signing ever if also a huge risk.

Mora had the the 49ers the NFC West, winning three Super Bowls over his tenure plus thad the best record in the league in two others. Twice Mora's teams had a record that was better than all of the AFC but could not win the NFC West. Payton was able to get a first round bye with only 10 wins. Only the Panthers have made it to the Super Bowl out of the NFC South during his tenure.

Mora had four playoff seasons. Payton has five. Mora had two winning seasons that weren't playoff teams. Payton didn't win the division when a team with a losing record did.

Key personnel decisions were part of the downfall of both. Mora's teams had the disgruntled Hebert addressed poorly by the Walsh trade. Payton's teams have had bad free agent signings that were either cut causing dead money or under-performing if retained.

At the end of Mora's tenure, his teams reversed with good offenses and bad defenses as there were major personnel changes due to aging rosters and the beginning of free agency. Paytons teams have retained very good offenses (with the same HOF QB) but have had historically bad defenses.

I guess in closing, if Payton is #1, Mora #2, and Haslett #3, how far apart is it? Is Mora closer to Haslett or to Payton?

Much different teams but same type of intense coach. As you stated Mora was all about defense. We had an okay offense but a terrible OC. Payton is a far better coach IMO. With Brees we have a chance every week because we can score.

I don't know if SP is tired or needs a change but I think he gives next year a go. If we don't break through then I could see everyone going a different direction.
 

SaintsMan209

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You forgot to mention Ditka and coach Rick Venturi. They both gave Payton a run for his money.


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HobBeh

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Keep the convo about coaching maybe
There seems little value in comparing pre and post salary cap franchises

Well, from what I remember, the Saints did have a hard time meeting the salary cap, and Hebert is recognized as a pioneer of free agency as we know it.

So we went from QB free agency costing us to saving us:scratch:
 
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HobBeh

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We had an okay offense but a terrible OC. Payton is a far better coach IMO. With Brees we have a chance every week because we can score.

I wonder how much of that was due to lack of a big playmaker on offense. The missing piece was a truly explosive RB or WR. That's why our offense seemed too conservative. I re-watched some '92 games against the 49ers and Eagles and the commentators were mentioning that the Saints didn't like being called that, and by '92 the offense actually may have used the passing game to a fault.
 

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Mora was a much better HC over the long term than Haslett. I'd equate Mora almost as the defensive equivalent to Payton on offense. In Mora's case, his defensive staff (prior to him hiring Jimmy Jr.) Was one of the great overall defensive staffs. For Payton, the offense is mostly all him. In both Payton and Mora coaching tenures, I think we are seeing the same thing. Payton is in the death throes of his tenure here and, likely, 2017 will be the end of the line...
 

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Mora had the 49ers and Giants to deal with, there was no parity in the NFL at that time. Sean is dealing with the Pats and Seahawks, but with the amount of parity it is easier to get to the top.
 

JackT.

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while overall the two coaches share a lot of similarities, I feel that Coach Payton is better equipped to handle rebuilding the team. Mora's downfall was his emotions mostly. He just couldn't handle it anymore it seemed. I don't see Coach Payton as being close to burning out. Just a bad string of injuries that exposed the fact that a lot of bad personnel decisions were made. Just ride the storm out and come out the other side with clear skies.
 
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HobBeh

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You forgot to mention Ditka and coach Rick Venturi. They both gave Payton a run for his money.


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If Billy Joe Hobert hadn't busted his achilles that 1998 team just might have been respectable.
 
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HobBeh

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while overall the two coaches share a lot of similarities, I feel that Coach Payton is better equipped to handle rebuilding the team. Mora's downfall was his emotions mostly. He just couldn't handle it anymore it seemed. I don't see Coach Payton as being close to burning out. Just a bad string of injuries that exposed the fact that a lot of bad personnel decisions were made. Just ride the storm out and come out the other side with clear skies.

Mora lost the dome patrol, almost the Brees of a defense. We have yet to see Payton coach without Brees.
 

JackT.

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Mora lost the dome patrol, almost the Brees of a defense. We have yet to see Payton coach without Brees.

I don't think we will. If this team is building towards a running team with a good defense like people here are thinking, that would have to prolong Brees' career by a few years you would think. Better to have him run the offense instead of starting over with another qb that would have to take years to master. I think a diminished Brees would be better than anyone else in the short term.
 
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HobBeh

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I don't think we will. If this team is building towards a running team with a good defense like people here are thinking, that would have to prolong Brees' career by a few years you would think. Better to have him run the offense instead of starting over with another qb that would have to take years to master. I think a diminished Brees would be better than anyone else in the short term.

I guess my point was that we saw Mora without the best part of his team. We have yet to see Payton without the best part of his, and yes I think Brees and Payton will be here together to the end...
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Mora had the 49ers and Giants to deal with, there was no parity in the NFL at that time. Sean is dealing with the Pats and Seahawks, but with the amount of parity it is easier to get to the top.

i'm not sure if that's true statistically
anecdotally you could argue that in the "debartolo" era, you only had to get past 5-6 top teams
now with parity it seems like you have to get past 12-15 teams
 

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Anyone think Payton has a shot for hall of fame? I think he needs to win at least one more SB...
 

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