Mora tenure vs. Payton tenure (1 Viewer)

[Domeination]

Mora was a good coach, but I think the fact that his teams had to go up against what was then the juggernaut of the 49ers is too convenient an excuse for his post-season failures. He never had to play the 9ers in the playoffs. All of his playoff losses were to much less daunting teams.

Payton deserves great credit for vaulting the Saints to the top of the NFL for a few years, but one comparison between him and Mora the OP left out is stubborn loyalty to some bad assistant coaches--Mora to Carl Smith and Payton to McMahon, Vitt, and Johnson.

 

[tarusman28]

The Comparison between Mora and Payton tenure is that there is no comparison.

Payton tenure is the best in Saints history and one of the best in the NFL. Whether you like Payton or not this is a fact!!!

Bill Parcells said it best to Payton after winning the Superbowl, "Congratulations, you are in elite class only 32 coaches (at the time) have ever won a Superbowl"

 

[sfidc3]

hence the "verging" portion of the quote. they had 2nd highest regular season record for a decade; just happened to be in the same div as montana. that is the very definition of "verge". they stepped up, got in the game & couldn't finish.

A

what? Why don't I ever remember them playing the 49ers in the playoffs back then? Because they never did...sorry, this makes no sense...and verging on greatness I would reserve for the Bills of the early 90's (4 SB's all losses)...not a Saints team that did not win a single playoff game....

If memory serves in that Eagles game, they threw the ball in the 1st half (often on 1st and 2nd down) to get the lead and went all conservative...run, run, incompletion...punt or run, run, interception....does anyone remember that differently?

 

[oldJC.SAINTS]

I don't get to watch the game today, so I was reminiscing about the Mora years....

I guess in closing, if Payton is #1, Mora #2, and Haslett #3, how far apart is it? Is Mora closer to Haslett or to Payton?

You missed a great game !

Thanks to Mora for bringing respectability to the Saints
Thanks to Haslett for our first playoff victory in franchise history
Thanks to Payton for that Super-Bowl

Payton is #1>>>Mora #2>>>>>>and Haslett #3

 

[tinman]

Stating that the Saints had 1 of the highest W/L records for a decade, yet didn't even sniff home field advantage, directly because of being in the same div as the 49ers, makes no sense? Being in the NFC @ a time it was so dominant also played a part. I think Hebert only lost 2-3 games against AFC opponents w/the Saints. It's all make believe, they didn't finish.
verge

(vɜːd&#658 n1. an edge or rim; margin
2. a limit beyond which something occurs; brink: on the verge of ecstasy.

That is exactly what Mora's Saints were; right @ the edge, never able to cross the threshold.
I never said the 49ers put them out of the playoffs. I was @ the Eagles playoff game & agree that the stage got to him.


The Bills didn't verge on anything; they were a great team. Likely to be the ONLY team ever to get to the SB for 4 straight years. Luck & stupidity are mostly responsible for a few of their SB losses, not lack of talent.

A

 

[sfidc3]

We clearly have a different definition of "great" but I firmly believe for a team to be considered so had to have won a championship.

I agree that it was unfortunate that they were in the same division as the 49ers but lets get the facts straight here, they lost at home in the playoffs to:

Minn in 1987
Atlanta in 1991 (they were division champs that year)
Philly in 1992

So the whole home field advantage thing is kind of moot if you can't get to the 2nd game, no?

 

[HobBeh]

what? Why don't I ever remember them playing the 49ers in the playoffs back then? Because they never did...sorry, this makes no sense...and verging on greatness I would reserve for the Bills of the early 90's (4 SB's all losses)...not a Saints team that did not win a single playoff game....

If memory serves in that Eagles game, they threw the ball in the 1st half (often on 1st and 2nd down) to get the lead and went all conservative...run, run, incompletion...punt or run, run, interception....does anyone remember that differently?

I dont know if that is exactly the case (an INT did spark the comeback), but I am sure we would be telling Sean Payton to run the ball more with a 20-7 lead. As it is, the Saints ended with only 20 rush attempts.

 

[HobBeh]

We clearly have a different definition of "great" but I firmly believe for a team to be considered so had to have won a championship.

I agree that it was unfortunate that they were in the same division as the 49ers but lets get the facts straight here, they lost at home in the playoffs to:

Minn in 1987
Atlanta in 1991 (they were division champs that year)
Philly in 1992

So the whole home field advantage thing is kind of moot if you can't get to the 2nd game, no?

But a first round bye would have been nice, no? And not that Mora should not have won at least one of those. That Vikes team was clearly unexpected and not even the 49ers were prepared for them with a week of rest and film study.

 

[sfidc3]

I'm not able to find a play by play, they did throw the ball more for sure, no argument there, but I remember them running the ball a lot more in the 2nd half putting them in obvious passing situations, thus making it more difficult to get 1st downs and score.

In the 1st half they had the Eagles defense off balance by throwing on 1st and 2nd downs as well...Mora/OC went away from what was working....

Regarding the 20-7 lead it is not that simple, if the team you are playing is a great run defense and you are having success throwing the ball on the early downs I would make them stop it....

 

[sfidc3]

So against the Eagles game the stage got to him? (not sure exactly what that means)

and the Vikings game was unexpected? that sure sounds like excuses to me....and not sure why Mora couldn't win a playoff game with Peyton Manning? I guess that was unexpected as well?

At this point lets just agree to disagree...

 

[HobBeh]

So against the Eagles game the stage got to him? (not sure exactly what that means)

and the Vikings game was unexpected? that sure sounds like excuses to me....and not sure why Mora couldn't win a playoff game with Peyton Manning? I guess that was unexpected as well?

At this point lets just agree to disagree...

I didn't make an excuse, I said he should have won one of those games.

About the Vikes being unexpected, I meant unexpectedly good, because they beat a rested Bill Walsh/Joe Montana 49ers team the very next week.

And in my OP I already acknowledged that he failed to win one in Indy, so I don't know what we disagree on.

 

[sfidc3]

I think the definition of great but I'm getting old and probably forgot....

 

[HobBeh]

I think the definition of great but I'm getting old and probably forgot....

Ah, maybe a reply to another poster

 

[dutar76]

i'm not sure if that's true statistically
anecdotally you could argue that in the "debartolo" era, you only had to get past 5-6 top teams
now with parity it seems like you have to get past 12-15 teams

And the NFL wants us to believe that they strive for parity for the "good of the game". Ha!!!

They want every team to be a click or two above or below 8-8. When the teams are that evenly matched, a missed call here or there, a few offensive or defensive holding calls, and a few pass interference calls at key moments can decide the entire game. And the league gets who they want into the playoffs.

Mora had to deal with dynasties, but Payton has to deal with this.