Mora tenure vs. Payton tenure (1 Viewer)

[Saintsfan8989]

Anyone think Payton has a shot for hall of fame? I think he needs to win at least one more SB...

 

[HobBeh]

i'm not sure if that's true statistically
anecdotally you could argue that in the "debartolo" era, you only had to get past 5-6 top teams
now with parity it seems like you have to get past 12-15 teams

If you had to get past 5-6 top teams, at least 4 of those were in the NFC, and the big 1 was a division rival.

 

[diehardfan]

Sean Payton will go down as the greatest coach in franchise history. To answer your question, he is better than Mora.

Poor player evaluations are killing us. We're hitting some, but not enough to be where we want to be.

 

[HobBeh]

Sean Payton will go down as the greatest coach in franchise history. To answer your question, he is better than Mora.

Poor player evaluations are killing us. We're hitting some, but not enough to be where we want to be.

That was not my question.

 

[diehardfan]

That was not my question.

Sorry, I mis-read it.

 

[SaintJ]

Is this really a question?

Mora's teams lost three home playoff games in six years, plus one more on the road. that's 0-4. With his 0-2 at Indy, it's the second-worst coaching playoff record in NFL history.

Payton's teams have gotten to the playoffs five times, and been knocked out in the first round only once, in an absolute fluke of a game. And if his hard-headed DC had just figured out in the fourth quarter of the game I can't even talk about that the only player on the other team who could beat us was Vernon Davis, we'd have had 36 wins and two Lombardis over a three-year stretch.

OR, I could sum up the vast gulf between Payton and Mora in one word: Ambush.

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket. Mora versus Payton is the textbook example of very good versus great.

 

[HobBeh]

Is this really a question?

What question did you read?

 

[El Caliente]

i'm not sure if that's true statistically
anecdotally you could argue that in the "debartolo" era, you only had to get past 5-6 top teams
now with parity it seems like you have to get past 12-15 teams

Those 49ers and Giants teams were infinitely better than the current dominant teams of the modern NFL. Heck, and you had the Skins as well. Mora did as well as could be asked, he didn't have free agency to help him until his last few years, so unless you drafted well you were SOL in terms of bringing in talent. We had just come out of the Mecom years of ownership, and talent wasn't there.

Mora wasn't as successful as Sean, but it's not because he was incapable of it, he just had a hell of a deck stacked against him.

 

[JackT.]

Those 49ers and Giants teams were infinitely better than the current dominant teams of the modern NFL. Heck, and you had the Skins as well. Mora did as well as could be asked, he didn't have free agency to help him until his last few years, so unless you drafted well you were SOL in terms of bringing in talent. We had just come out of the Mecom years of ownership, and talent wasn't there.

Mora wasn't as successful as Sean, but it's not because he was incapable of it, he just had a hell of a deck stacked against him.

and not only that but the 80's had some of the better defenses. That made it more difficult for the Saints to consistently compete. The Dome Patrol kept us in most games but the offense wasn't potent enough. I would have to say that if you look at everything in a vacuum, Mora did a better job overhauling and changing the culture of this team than Payton.

 

[Saint Jack]

If I can compare the two, Mora took a losing franchise and turned it into a winning team that the region could be proud of.
Payton took that regional franchise and put a national brand on it.

 

[El Caliente]

and not only that but the 80's had some of the better defenses. That made it more difficult for the Saints to consistently compete. The Dome Patrol kept us in most games but the offense wasn't potent enough. I would have to say that if you look at everything in a vacuum, Mora did a better job overhauling and changing the culture of this team than Payton.

You know you are right, right?

Mora came in at the end of the Mecom years, and had to gut the team of players who were NFL players, but not really. He had to rebuild that team through the draft and plan B free agents. He couldn't go out and sign a Drew Brees, or a Brett Favre, or what have you. He had to coach up inferior players until he could bring in better talent through the draft. It really isn't even fair to compare how Sean and Jim built their teams. One had somewhat an easier path to getting the team back to respectability than the other.

 

[SuperSaint]

Poor player evaluations are killing us.

Right on the nose.

Our problems aren't in the coaches box, they're in the owners box.

 

[tarusman28]

and not only that but the 80's had some of the better defenses. That made it more difficult for the Saints to consistently compete. The Dome Patrol kept us in most games but the offense wasn't potent enough. I would have to say that if you look at everything in a vacuum, Mora did a better job overhauling and changing the culture of this team than Payton.

What??!?! Payton took over a Saints team that won only 1 playoff game in its entire history. Prior to Payton era all you had was a losing culture especially compared to the rest of the NFL. Mora never had to deal a New Orleans post-katrina as well.

 

[tarusman28]

You know you are right, right?

Mora came in at the end of the Mecom years, and had to gut the team of players who were NFL players, but not really. He had to rebuild that team through the draft and plan B free agents. He couldn't go out and sign a Drew Brees, or a Brett Favre, or what have you. He had to coach up inferior players until he could bring in better talent through the draft. It really isn't even fair to compare how Sean and Jim built their teams. One had somewhat an easier path to getting the team back to respectability than the other.

Not true at all. The Saints had a shot to get players like Jim Kelly (Bills) was available from USFL and Warren Moon from the CFL.

 

[El Caliente]

Not true at all. The Saints had a shot to get players like Jim Kelly (Bills) was available from USFL and Warren Moon from the CFL.

Jim Kelly wasn't available to us. His rights were held by the Bills (who drafted him), so when the USFL folded, he went to them.

Warren Moon was never coming here. He chose Houston because the coach there was his college coach, so he was familiar with the system.

As for other USFL players, when given the chance, Mora picked the best he could.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NFL_Supplemental_Draft_of_USFL_and_CFL_players

What??!?! Payton took over a Saints team that won only 1 playoff game in its entire history. Prior to Payton era all you had was a losing culture especially compared to the rest of the NFL. Mora never had to deal a New Orleans post-katrina as well.

Mora took over a team that had never had a winning season.