My take on why our secondary struggled (1 Viewer)

picnicwithfish

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There were so many passes that made it over the defense last night.... Why? Is it talent, coaching, execution, normal slow start? I don’t think so. I truly think our secondary is use to seeing balls take a little longer to reach the target. The balls leaving Watson’s hand were moving 3 times as fast as what they are use to seeing from Brees in practice. (That is not a knock on Brees). When your contact timing to the receiver is a second off, it equates to being burnt. Add the speed from Hopkins, Fuller, and Stills based to what they practice against (Not a knock on our receivers. They are two totally different styles of receiver groups), was on a different level. Their speed, with having to keep Watson in check makes man to man a hard task.

I say all that to say, they will be fine. They won’t face a mobile quarterback with that arm strength and receiver group again for a while. Happy for that hard fought win. It was pretty gutsy.
 
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This is kinda how I'm looking at it too. The Texans are a different kind of animal. A QB who can throw lasers a mile and one of the fastest WR corps in the league. They are going to make a lot of defenses look foolish. Thankfully the defense isn't going to face that combination of QB arm talent and WR speed again this season.

And DA didn't do his players any favors last night. He put them in position for epic fails over, and over, and over. That was a bad game plan. That was bad play calling. The players will settle in and hopefully DA is able to make adjustments like he always does in the first quarter of the season.
If metcalf keeps it up,,,,,,two weeks in Seattle
 

BarBar

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They have a really good passing game and they're going to get some, my only real gripes were the two deep passes to Hopkins and Stills at the end, shouldn't happen twice in a row in that game situation...

This. After reading the forum I was expecting the defense to be a dumpster fire. It really was not bad outside of those 2 plays. A few big plays were well covered but the Texans receivers and QB were amazing and made the completion anyway. Perfect pass and amazing catch beats good coverage every time.

I liked the QB pressure but there is work to do still on both sides of the ball. I just finished the game and I am pumped. This team is gonna be tough down the stretch!
 

Great Dane

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Having Hopkins and Fuller is a very strong 1-2 WR set. What disappointed me was all of the 3rd down & long conversions Watson made. Has been our teams Achilles heel for years. I saw that Jordan got held numerous times on 3rd down, but that is no excuse. I have no answer nor solution
 

BreesusSaves

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But what about players like PJ Williams who gets torched consistently such as in the ATL game by ridley three times...Ridley isn’t Hopkins.

Why do players like him get a pass because he makes a few plays here and there that masks and makes us forget and forgive his inability to cover WRs.

The commentators even said last night they wanted to target PJ Williams-and I have heard that same saying in multiple games throughout the seasons

I don’t assume every player on our D should be elite, and if not they should be cut or whatever. But cmon man, you can’t deny when you consistently see players like him get burnt.
I didn't say to give him a pass, I was simply saying some people flat out act like it should not ever be possible for opposing players to make big plays against the Saints. Ridley is also a damn good receiver, just take a peek at his stats last season. Can the Saints upgrade from PJ Williams? Yes. But when you are talking about a teams 4th, 5th, potentially 6th CB, the talent and performance is going to get progressively worse. PJ Williams at best is the dimeback on the team. He's also shown himself to be a disaster on the outside and he really only does well in the slot. Lattimore and Apple on the outside, Robinson in the slot. If Williams is on the field, either one of those three is injured, or the other team is in a 4WR set. Neither one of those is good news for the Saints, and really any team. There is a reason 3 and 4 WR sets are getting more and more common in the NFL. The "Pro Spread" offense that Sean Payton's perfected is now being used by a lot more teams. You look at the top offenses, they are all running some form of the Pro Spread. Once you force a team to put their 4th, sometimes 5th string CBs on the field, that is where the mismatches happen. Everyone knows PJ Williams is a liability for the Saints, including the Saints. The only real way to help PJ Williams is for the Saints defensive line to continue to terrorize QBs, and Onyemata coming back next week, and Sheldon Rankins soon will help with that a lot.
 

UFCSaint

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True but Goff has a pretty live arm and can get the ball downfield to guys like Cooks and Woods. Also, Russell Wilson throws soft, fluffy rainbows but they ALWAYS seem to find their way into the hands of open receivers.

Our secondary has to step up big time the next two weeks.
I feel like Watson has the decision-making of Wilson, with an arm stronger than Goff...but with the added ability to scramble. He is that good.
 

NewOrleansBoy

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Yes. But when you are talking about a teams 4th, 5th, potentially 6th CB

There is a reason 3 and 4 WR sets are getting more and more common in the NFL.
I bolded what I feel is the main issue. You stated that because we are talking about our team's 4th/5th/6th CB playing the dime such as PJ Williams , then the performance makes sense to be progressively worse.

However, here is my issue.

With the Saints D, and their playbook, that team's "4th/5th/6th CB playing the dimeback such as PJ Williams" SHOULD then be just as good as the team's 1st/2nd CB because we run a lot coverages where there is more than just 2 DBs out there most of time. By that logic, shouldn't we then place asn importance on upgrading that 3rd CB if we're going to run majority of our plays with more than 2 DBs out there?

You also stated that there is a reason why 3 and 4 WR sets are getting more common--Doesn't that just further my concern and warrant the need to get a great/upgrade at the 3rd CB?
 

saint_drago

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You also stated that there is a reason why 3 and 4 WR sets are getting more common--Doesn't that just further my concern and warrant the need to get a great/upgrade at the 3rd CB?
I see what you're saying and I agree. We could use an upgrade at our 3rd & 4th Corner spots. But I think every team in the league feels the same way. How many teams are super pumped about having an awesome #4 CB? Not many.

The Saints have been trying to upgrade the Corner depth chart from top to bottom the last several years. They used a 2nd round pick on SJB in 2014. They used a 3rd on P.J. in '15. They used the 11th overall pick on Lattimore in '17 and finally hit.

The front office has tried to sign some big name Corners in free agency and they tried to trade for Josh Norman. Luckily they were able to trade for Eli Apple. It's obvious they know they need to get better but it's not that easy.
 

Randy Jones

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I am not sure it was a personnel issue as much as a scheme issue, It would be interesting what type of coverage schemes the Saints were running most of the night. I seem to remember reading that Watson had a lot of success against the Saints when they were in zone coverage, but was not so good against man coverage. I think the Saints are better in man coverage on the edge, but this works best when the dline really gets into the backfield quickly. We couldn't rotate the dlinen much. Without the Saints' three best 3 technique dlinemen in the game, it most likely affected coverage. Statistically speaking, the Saints had a lock of sacks, but notice that most of sacks came after Watson had begun to scramble. I don't think were straight up pressure or coverage sacks.
 

BreesusSaves

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I bolded what I feel is the main issue. You stated that because we are talking about our team's 4th/5th/6th CB playing the dime such as PJ Williams , then the performance makes sense to be progressively worse.

However, here is my issue.

With the Saints D, and their playbook, that team's "4th/5th/6th CB playing the dimeback such as PJ Williams" SHOULD then be just as good as the team's 1st/2nd CB because we run a lot coverages where there is more than just 2 DBs out there most of time. By that logic, shouldn't we then place asn importance on upgrading that 3rd CB if we're going to run majority of our plays with more than 2 DBs out there?

You also stated that there is a reason why 3 and 4 WR sets are getting more common--Doesn't that just further my concern and warrant the need to get a great/upgrade at the 3rd CB?
The issue is cap space. Every team would love to have three or four elite Corners. Not a single team in the league can afford to pay three or four elite Corners. Most can barely pay for just one. PJ Williams is a $2.25m cap hit this season. It can be argued that there are no free agents that would be a legitimate upgrade to Williams in that price range. The only way to realistically upgrade the that deep on the CB chart is the draft. The Saints spent some money trying to get deeper at CB, they signed Robinson to play the slot but so far this year he's been a disaster, limited to only playing Special Teams against the Texans. The only real move the Saints can make to improve their secondary is nailing the draft. Either that or let guys like Ramcyzk and Kamara leave in free agency. Without good to elite tier players on rookie contracts, the Saints will be in a really tough spot... the good news is, this is the dilemma every NFL team faces.
 

Randy Jones

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The issue is cap space. Every team would love to have three or four elite Corners. Not a single team in the league can afford to pay three or four elite Corners. Most can barely pay for just one. PJ Williams is a $2.25m cap hit this season. It can be argued that there are no free agents that would be a legitimate upgrade to Williams in that price range. The only way to realistically upgrade the that deep on the CB chart is the draft. The Saints spent some money trying to get deeper at CB, they signed Robinson to play the slot but so far this year he's been a disaster, limited to only playing Special Teams against the Texans. The only real move the Saints can make to improve their secondary is nailing the draft. Either that or let guys like Ramcyzk and Kamara leave in free agency. Without good to elite tier players on rookie contracts, the Saints will be in a really tough spot... the good news is, this is the dilemma every NFL team faces.
You also know the Saints have not too many draft picks in 18/19 to get young talented cheap backups in the 3-5 rds.
 

SaintsSwag

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There were so many passes that made it over the defense last night.... Why? Is it talent, coaching, execution, normal slow start? I don’t think so. I truly think our secondary is use to seeing balls take a little longer to reach the target. The balls leaving Watson’s hand were moving 3 times as fast as what they are use to seeing from Brees in practice. (That is not a knock on Brees). When your contact timing to the receiver is a second off, it equates to being burnt. Add the speed from Hopkins, Fuller, and Stills based to what they practice against (Not a knock on our receivers. They are two totally different styles of receiver groups), was on a different level. Their speed, with having to keep Watson in check makes man to man a hard task.

I say all that to say, they will be fine. They won’t face a mobile quarterback with that arm strength and receiver group again for a while. Happy for that hard fought win. It was pretty gutsy.

Actually at the combine Watson had some of the slowest footballs in NFL History out of any starting QB.

He still can launch it though
 

Jb25saints

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Having Hopkins and Fuller is a very strong 1-2 WR set. What disappointed me was all of the 3rd down & long conversions Watson made. Has been our teams Achilles heel for years. I saw that Jordan got held numerous times on 3rd down, but that is no excuse. I have no answer nor solution
The D has to stop giving so much cushion on the 3rd and longs. I agree with you it’s been like this forever!
 

Deucewildin

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Having Hopkins and Fuller is a very strong 1-2 WR set. What disappointed me was all of the 3rd down & long conversions Watson made. Has been our teams Achilles heel for years. I saw that Jordan got held numerous times on 3rd down, but that is no excuse. I have no answer nor solution
With Kenny Stills and mark my words by end of season Stills will have more catches and TDS than Fuller . He’ll work the outside and slot with Hopkins

To compare I think we’ll see a lot of Thomas in the slot this season with Smith and Ginn outside kicking one both inside though to keep a good mix on Thomas
 

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