N/S: Bucs kicker, Roberto Aguayo, missing chip shots (1 Viewer)

I don't feel bad at all for the GM. Using a second rounder on a kicker is a horrible business decision. Unless Aguayo turns it around and quickly becomes the next Morton Anderson, this pick will be a disaster.

But SJB was a great business decision, I wouldn't mind taking a chance on a guy to end this round robin of horrible kickers we have had. Draft picks are crap shoot regardless of position
 
I mean, Janikowski was taken in round 1. He has been solid and kept kicker off their radar for 12-15 years now.

That said, i would die if i saw kicker taken in the first 2 days.
 
I mean, Janikowski was taken in round 1. He has been solid and kept kicker off their radar for 12-15 years now.

That said, i would die if i saw kicker taken in the first 2 days.

I agree, but at the same time, if the kicker was Morten Anderson or Sebastian Janikowski, I would gladly take him in the first round. We have have a steady revolving door at kicker since Sean got here, to bring some stability to 1/3 of your gameplan would be peace of mind we would all love.
 
I could name quite a few 1st and 2nd round picks that we could have done better taking a kicker....


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I agree, but at the same time, if the kicker was Morten Anderson or Sebastian Janikowski, I would gladly take him in the first round. We have have a steady revolving door at kicker since Sean got here, to bring some stability to 1/3 of your gameplan would be peace of mind we would all love.

Epitome of a luxury pick. If you are picking 32 and coming off a Super Bowl and havent been picked apart in free agency...sure.

7-9 and frustratingly underwhelming for 3 straight years? I pass out
 
Epitome of a luxury pick. If you are picking 32 and coming off a Super Bowl and havent been picked apart in free agency...sure.

7-9 and frustratingly underwhelming for 3 straight years? I pass out

Reggie Bush
Robert Meachem
Sedrick Ellis
Malcolm Jenkins
Patrick Robinson
Cameron Jordan
Akiem Hicks
Kenny Vaccaro
Brandin Cooks
Andrus Peat

Looking at that list of past picks, and debating them over the potential to draft Morten Anderson/ Sebastian Janikowski (in the last 10 years we have lost 17 games by 3pts or less), give me the kicker. While Reggie, Cam, and Malcolm were great, those two kickers impacted more games on their own, than those three players combined.
 
Reggie Bush
Robert Meachem
Sedrick Ellis
Malcolm Jenkins
Patrick Robinson
Cameron Jordan
Akiem Hicks
Kenny Vaccaro
Brandin Cooks
Andrus Peat

Looking at that list of past picks, and debating them over the potential to draft Morten Anderson/ Sebastian Janikowski (in the last 10 years we have lost 17 games by 3pts or less), give me the kicker. While Reggie, Cam, and Malcolm were great, those two kickers impacted more games on their own, than those three players combined.

Anderson and Janikowski have the same number of field goal and extra point attempts in Super Bowls as Bush, Jordan, and Jenkins. If you don't have the talent to be in a position for your kicker to win the game, why have the kicker? What's the best chance to get the talent come to put your kicker in a position to win games? The first and second rounds of the draft.
 
Anderson and Janikowski have the same number of field goal and extra point attempts in Super Bowls as Bush, Jordan, and Jenkins. If you don't have the talent to be in a position for your kicker to win the game, why have the kicker? What's the best chance to get the talent come to put your kicker in a position to win games? The first and second rounds of the draft.


I would say PT did more to get us to the Super Bowl than Bush, but thats just me I guess. Anderson and Janikowski have won games for their teams, and i'm not talking about last second fgs, i'm talking, they were the only ones to score in entire games. Give me those guys, and the stability they bring, over the players found on that list.
 
Anderson and Janikowski have won games for their teams, and i'm not talking about last second fgs, i'm talking, they were the only ones to score in entire games. Give me those guys, and the stability they bring, over the players found on that list.

And they've not only never won a Super Bowl, but never even played in one.

Adam Vinatieri was an undrafted free agent, and his foot is responsible for 2 rings for Brady and scoring all of the Colts points in the 2006 playoffs against the Ravens.

The fact of the matter is the risk/reward on nearly every other position is much better value than taking a kicker in the first or second round.

Brandin Cooks is the type of talent to put a kicker in a position to win the game in a two minute drill. If you don't have that type of talent on your team, then the kicker can't win the game.

Is having a reliable kicker important? Yes, absolutely. Have we all had fits of fury when a Saints kicker has missed and lost a game because of it? Yes, absolutely. Would I take a kicker over a talent like Brandin Cooks or Cam Jordan? No, absolutely not.
 
And they've not only never won a Super Bowl, but never even played in one.

Adam Vinatieri was an undrafted free agent, and his foot is responsible for 2 rings for Brady and scoring all of the Colts points in the 2006 playoffs against the Ravens.

The fact of the matter is the risk/reward on nearly every other position is much better value than taking a kicker in the first or second round.

Brandin Cooks is the type of talent to put a kicker in a position to win the game in a two minute drill. If you don't have that type of talent on your team, then the kicker can't win the game.

Is having a reliable kicker important? Yes, absolutely. Have we all had fits of fury when a Saints kicker has missed and lost a game because of it? Yes, absolutely. Would I take a kicker over a talent like Brandin Cooks or Cam Jordan? No, absolutely not.

Would you take a Morten Anderson/ Janikowski over a talent like Robert Meachem, Sedrick Ellis, Patrick Robinson, Vaccaro, or Peat?

And yes, both Anderson and Janikowski have been to the Super Bowl. In their teams super bowl runs, both kickers played an important part.

I see what you are saying, and few kickers are sure fire like those two, which is why I am saying, if you could grab either of them in the first, you would be silly not to.

I still find it odd that, with all the problems we have on our team, we have had 2 threads dedicated to an opposing teams kicker, within the last 3 days.
 
I totally blanked and for some reason thought they both did not make it to a Super Bowl, my mistake. Regardless, my viewpoint remains the same. You don't take a kicker in the first or second round, and more importantly the whole "hindsight revisionist drafting" is a flat out can of worms, and it is even worse when you do it for a kicker.

Would you take Anderson/Janikowski over Von Miller? Julio Jones? Patrick Peterson? JJ Watt? Haloti Ngata? Patrick Willis? Navarro Bowman? The list only gets longer.
 
I totally blanked and for some reason thought they both did not make it to a Super Bowl, my mistake. Regardless, my viewpoint remains the same. You don't take a kicker in the first or second round, and more importantly the whole "hindsight revisionist drafting" is a flat out can of worms, and it is even worse when you do it for a kicker.

Would you take Anderson/Janikowski over Von Miller? Julio Jones? Patrick Peterson? JJ Watt? Haloti Ngata? Patrick Willis? Navarro Bowman? The list only gets longer.

Given that we never had a chance to draft those players, no. But we draft the guys mentioned above, and all but 3 or 4 of them made an impact less than what a solid kicker would have. So yeah, give me the kicker over all those guys besides Bush, Jordan, Jenkins, and possibly Cooks.

In their primes Anderson and Janikowski were solid once you got to about 45. How many times have we stalled and chosen to punt because we couldn't convert a 50 yard fg? Plenty
 
Given that we never had a chance to draft those players, no. But we draft the guys mentioned above, and all but 3 or 4 of them made an impact less than what a solid kicker would have. So yeah, give me the kicker over all those guys besides Bush, Jordan, Jenkins, and possibly Cooks.

In their primes Anderson and Janikowski were solid once you got to about 45. How many times have we stalled and chosen to punt because we couldn't convert a 50 yard fg? Plenty

Hindsight makes Anderson and Janikowski worthy of 1st round picks. Would you take Russell Erxleben over any of those players you'd pass on for Anderson or Janikowski? You don't have the advantage of hindsight going into the draft. The overall success rate between highly drafted vs lowly drafted vs undrafted kickers is minimal, especially compared to other positions. That's why you don't spend a high draft choice on one, because the odds of success aren't significantly higher than drafting one later or picking up one in free agency.

It's not that Anderson and Janikoski aren't first round talents, it's that you never know how good a player will be when you're drafting them and the odds of finding a reliable kicker show it isn't worth taking the risk on a kicker with higher draft picks.
 
Given that we never had a chance to draft those players, no. But we draft the guys mentioned above, and all but 3 or 4 of them made an impact less than what a solid kicker would have. So yeah, give me the kicker over all those guys besides Bush, Jordan, Jenkins, and possibly Cooks.

In their primes Anderson and Janikowski were solid once you got to about 45. How many times have we stalled and chosen to punt because we couldn't convert a 50 yard fg? Plenty

And how are you so sure your kicker drafted in the first round would be the next Anderson or Janikowski? Just because you drafted him in the first round?
 
Hindsight makes Anderson and Janikowski worthy of 1st round picks. Would you take Russell Erxleben over any of those players you'd pass on for Anderson or Janikowski? You don't have the advantage of hindsight going into the draft. The overall success rate between highly drafted vs lowly drafted vs undrafted kickers is minimal, especially compared to other positions. That's why you don't spend a high draft choice on one, because the odds of success aren't significantly higher than drafting one later or picking up one in free agency.

It's not that Anderson and Janikoski aren't first round talents, it's that you never know how good a player will be when you're drafting them and the odds of finding reliable kicker show it isn't worth taking the risk on a kicker with higher draft picks.

And how are you so sure your kicker drafted in the first round would be the next Anderson or Janikowski? Just because you drafted him in the first round?

from post 18

I agree, but at the same time, if the kicker was Morten Anderson or Sebastian Janikowski, I would gladly take him in the first round. We have have a steady revolving door at kicker since Sean got here, to bring some stability to 1/3 of your gameplan would be peace of mind we would all love.

I'm not saying taking any kicker, i'm saying taking one of those two. Obviously this is all hypothetical.

At any rate, I bow out and say, lets keep an eye on the rookie Arguayo, but lets remember, we still have a first rounder who can't find a spot to even make an impact on the team...or maybe that his his impact.
 

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