N/S Derrius Guice has been released by the Washington Football Team following a domestic violence investigation (1 Viewer)

[Saint Floyd]

Right. And this incident, according to Jordy Cullotta, occurred between January and June of 2016. Les was still the coach. It’s very plausible that Orgeron only found out after the fact. Again, all the major university players are gone now. The people still there that I’d point a finger at may be the compliance department...?

At some point, universities need to be held responsible for the actions of those they employ. Plausible deniability only goes so far. LSU has also stuck with Will Wade, its men’s basketball coach, despite him being dead to rights on tape blatantly breaking multiple school and NCAA rules. There is a pattern here.

To paraphrase Jerry Tarkanian, “The NCAA is so angry at Kentucky that it’s putting Cleveland State on probation.”

 

[St.Fury]

At some point, universities need to be held responsible for the actions of those they employ. Plausible deniability only goes so far. LSU has also stuck with Will Wade, its men’s basketball coach, despite him being dead to rights on tape blatantly breaking multiple school and NCAA rules. There is a pattern here.

To paraphrase Jerry Tarkanian, “The NCAA is so angry at Kentucky that it’s putting Cleveland State on probation.”

Those are two totally different scenarios. NCAA violations vs federal offenses. The Will Wade situation is still unresolved because the NCAA has not concluded its investigation. Wade was already suspended for a time. That’s sufficient until we find out what specific violations they uncover. What Guice is accused of is much worse, IMO. And the underlying issue is much bigger than LSU. Repeatedly, when these issues occurr in the NCAA, the issue is left up to the university to deal with. Why do we trust the university to handle these situations properly? Why is law enforcement not involved?

furthermore, during the draft, when Guice fell, I believe it was a mike Mayock who alluded to some very bad things that came up during the evaluation process of Guice. Many of is questioned what it was. Of course we were skeptical because no details were given. But if ANYONE had any idea it was something on this level, why the heck did it NOT come out? How far does that coverup go? It’s very unsettling to me.

 

[Saintman2884]

Fury, even if Orgeron wasn't the HC, and odds are based on this report he wasnt, the fact that he supposedly dismissed a serious first-degree felonies of one of his star RBs raping two women as "Well, all girls did to cheat around on everyone anyway" comes across as a bit worrying and gives the impression he didnt think it was a big deal at the time.

That impression of having an inconsequential attitude or response is only going to reinforce existing perceptions that NCAA Power 5 college football programs openly recruit players that scouts tell them have sketchy or questionable backgrounds but are allowed in and if some of them exhibit bad behavior, the school or program, or its AD will squash it because their 2-time All-Americans. Sometimes players who come from sketchy, questionable backgrounds or had difficult lives turn out to be model or decent citizens who dont get into too much trouble in college or the NFL. Randy Moss, Jerome Brown, Jeremy Shockey, and Jimmy Graham are a few halfway decent examples to some extent, so it's not a moral/ethical absolute. It's a mixed bag that potentially has the chance to blow up in a school's or it's football program's collective faces if not handled appropriately.

 

[Saintman2884]

Those are two totally different scenarios. NCAA violations vs federal offenses. The Will Wade situation is still unresolved because the NCAA has not concluded its investigation. Wade was already suspended for a time. That’s sufficient until we find out what specific violations they uncover. What Guice is accused of is much worse, IMO. And the underlying issue is much bigger than LSU. Repeatedly, when these issues occurr in the NCAA, the issue is left up to the university to deal with. Why do we trust the university to handle these situations properly? Why is law enforcement not involved?

furthermore, during the draft, when Guice fell, I believe it was a mike Mayock who alluded to some very bad things that came up during the evaluation process of Guice. Many of is questioned what it was. Of course we were skeptical because no details were given. But if ANYONE had any idea it was something on this level, why the heck did it NOT come out? How far does that coverup go? It’s very unsettling to me.

Yeah, Fury, but is that a appropriate punishment for what Guice did that some NFL scouts or NFL Draft insiders could've heard bits and pieces of some of these stories and made vague allusions to it? So what, it hurt his draft stock 3 years ago? All the while, there could've been high-level LSU athletic administrators, school President, HC Miles knew or heard about it and after him, Orgeron was informed and allegedly didn't take it too seriously? Plus, there's this unspoken immortal sports locker room code about keeping certain players secrets or indiscretions in-house and never revealing it to anyone, even years or decades after they've played together in college or retired.

Ive heard some interesting, legendarily infamous stories over the years about how disruptive, ill-mannered, and undisciplined punk Kenny Stabler was at Alabama. Borrowed items from teammates, friends, roommates, and never returned them. He was hard-headed, arrogant, and difficult to coach even from a notoriously strict disciplinarian like Bear Bryant who ran some of the toughest, hardest, and most grueling workouts in college football in 95-100 hot summer days with 80% humidity.

 

[St.Fury]

Fury, even if Orgeron wasn't the HC, and odds are based on this report he wasnt, the fact that he supposedly dismissed a serious first-degree felonies of one of his star RBs raping two women as "Well, all girls did to cheat around on everyone anyway" comes across as a bit worrying and gives the impression he didnt think it was a big deal at the time.

I absolutely does. My point was that we shouldn’t vilify Orgeron just yet. We don’t know what he knew and what context he said that, if that part is fact.

Was Orgeron under the impression the girl simply cheated on the guy because that’s what he was told? I don’t know. But it’s possible. Now, if he did know the severity of the allegations and blew it off like that, I’ll be highly upset and disgusted. And we know from the Penn St and Ohio St cases that these systemic things do happen. thats why I question why Law Enforcement wasn’t involved.

 

[St.Fury]

Yeah, Fury, but is that a appropriate punishment for what Guice did that some NFL scouts or NFL Draft insiders could've heard bits and pieces of some of these stories and made vague allusions to it? So what, it hurt his draft stock 3 years ago? All the while, there could've been high-level LSU athletic administrators, school President, HC Miles knew or heard about it and after him, Orgeron was informed and allegedly didn't take it too seriously? Plus, there's this unspoken immortal sports locker room code about keeping certain players secrets or indiscretions in-house and never revealing it to anyone, even years or decades after they've played together in college or retired.

Ive heard some interesting, legendarily infamous stories over the years about how disruptive, ill-mannered, and undisciplined punk Kenny Stabler was at Alabama. Borrowed items from teammates, friends, roommates, and never returned them. He was hard-headed, arrogant, and difficult to coach even from a notoriously strict disciplinarian like Bear Bryant who ran some of the toughest, hardest, and most grueling workouts in college football in 95-100 hot summer days with 80% humidity.

My point was that if those rumors were floating around, why didn’t someone ask if and why the authorities weren’t contacted. I wouldn’t want rumors floating around on National TV. But someone heard something and noone seems to have brought it to the police. That makes this a football issue, not an LSU issue. It disturbing.

 

[Saint Floyd]

My point was that if those rumors were floating around, why didn’t someone ask if and why the authorities weren’t contacted. I wouldn’t want rumors floating around on National TV. But someone heard something and noone seems to have brought it to the police. That makes this a football issue, not an LSU issue. It disturbing.

The fact that the authorities weren’t/typically are not informed falls on a university’s administration. It’s why the “lack of institutional control” penalty is so important in these cases.

Being ignorant from top to bottom doesn’t acquit any school—Penn State, LSU, or anyone else; in fact, it means they are either intentionally oblivious or wildly incompetent. Either way, heads have to roll at a lot of American universities. Unfortunately, we know they probably won’t.

 

[Saintman2884]

I absolutely does. My point was that we shouldn’t vilify Orgeron just yet. We don’t know what he knew and what context he said that, if that part is fact.

Was Orgeron under the impression the girl simply cheated on the guy because that’s what he was told? I don’t know. But it’s possible. Now, if he did know the severity of the allegations and blew it off like that, I’ll be highly upset and disgusted. And we know from the Penn St and Ohio St cases that these systemic things do happen. thats why I question why Law Enforcement wasn’t involved.

Agreed on most accounts. Except what occurred at Penn State with former DC Jerry Sandusky using his Second Mile foundation summer football camp for middle-school and high-school football players as a way to indulge his sick, disgusting sexual predatory urges for nearly 3 decades unhindered, unchecked, and covered up by Penn State assistants, high-level boosters, numerous ADs, university administrators even law enforcement almost destroyed Penn State's football program very existence, partly discredited and severely damaged one of NCAAF's once-beloved, legendary HCs in Joe Paterno. They were serious discussions, Fury in 2011-2012 after Sandusky long-term sexual assault, molestation charges and how a Penn State assistant in 2002, instead of stopping Sandusky molesting a young boy when he walked in one afternoon, he just ran away and told his Dad and Paterno and Nittany Lions coaching staff, and nothing was ever done. There were calls for Penn State to get the death penalty similar to SMU in 1987 and it's a minor miracle they escaped relatively unscathed.

The level of systemic stonewalling, cover-ups, institutional protection of a Penn State DC who was a pedophile is infinitely worse then even this USA Report about LSU.
It's like comparing very severe, potentially-dangerous thunderstorms with some tornadoes to a Cat 5 hurricane about to make landfall in Miami, Tampa, or Houston. Both are dangerous weather phenomenon but which one's more likely to cause more damage, destruction, chaos, deaths and or lives drastically altered post-storm?

 

[St.Fury]

Agreed on most accounts. Except what occurred at Penn State with former DC Jerry Sandusky using his Second Mile foundation summer football camp for middle-school and high-school football players as a way to indulge his sick, disgusting sexual predatory urges for nearly 3 decades unhindered, unchecked, and covered up by Penn State assistants, high-level boosters, numerous ADs, university administrators even law enforcement almost destroyed Penn State's football program very existence, partly discredited and severely damaged one of NCAAF's once-beloved, legendary HCs in Joe Paterno. They were serious discussions, Fury in 2011-2012 after Sandusky long-term sexual assault, molestation charges and how a Penn State assistant in 2002, instead of stopping Sandusky molesting a young boy when he walked in one afternoon, he just ran away and told his Dad and Paterno and Nittany Lions coaching staff, and nothing was ever done. There were calls for Penn State to get the death penalty similar to SMU in 1987 and it's a minor miracle they escaped relatively unscathed.

The level of systemic stonewalling, cover-ups, institutional protection of a Penn State DC who was a pedophile is infinitely worse then even this USA Report about LSU.
It's like comparing very severe, potentially-dangerous thunderstorms with some tornadoes to a Cat 5 hurricane about to make landfall in Miami, Tampa, or Houston. Both are dangerous weather phenomenon but which one's more likely to cause more damage, destruction, chaos, deaths and or lives drastically altered post-storm?

I don’t disagree with a single thing you stated. I’m not sure where our disagreement is.

 

[Saintman2884]

I think my response posts were sort of corresponding statements. I thought I saw or interpreted a few ambiguous points in your earlier posts in this thread that I felt needed to be asked or addressed, but they got answered.

I thank you for your comments and your engagement on this thread.

BTW, I would highly recommend watching the HBO Films special about Sandusky rape/pedophilia scandals and how Paterno may have known or suspected about it going on for years. It's an excellent movie. Al Pacino plays Joe Paterno and Riley Keough plays the investigative reporter/journalist who interviewed several high-school teenagers who were raped or accosted by Sandusky at his Second Mile foundation.
It came out 2-3 years ago and if you haven't seen it yet, I would strongly recommend it.
It's not as graphic or as intense of a film series as let's say Chernobyl film was last year, but it's hard-hitting and enjoyable from a suspense perspective.

 

[St.Fury]

I think my response posts were sort of corresponding statements. I thought I saw or interpreted a few ambiguous points in your earlier posts in this thread that I felt needed to be asked or addressed, but they got answered.

I thank you for your comments and your engagement on this thread.

BTW, I would highly recommend watching the HBO Films special about Sandusky rape/pedophilia scandals and how Paterno may have known or suspected about it going on for years. It's an excellent movie. Al Pacino plays Joe Paterno and Riley Keough plays the investigative reporter/journalist who interviewed several high-school teenagers who were raped or accosted by Sandusky at his Second Mile foundation.
It came out 2-3 years ago and if you haven't seen it yet, I would strongly recommend it.
It's not as graphic or as intense of a film series as let's say Chernobyl film was last year, but it's hard-hitting and enjoyable from a suspense perspective.

That whole situation was sickening. I’m not sure I can stomach it. But I may.

 

[James Spader]

That whole situation was sickening. I’m not sure I can stomach it. But I may.

Same here. That whole story makes me sick and angry.