N/S DeSean Jackson shares Anti-Semitic quotes attributed to Hitler on Instagram (1 Viewer)

[Mojomajik9]

Nor does it shed light the majority of white people benefited from slavery(not that the majority own slaves but the majority benefited from it).

I am curious how that worked. This isn’t a “gotcha” question. I’d honestly like to hear the reasoning. It seems counterintuitive as slave owners owned slaves to have workers that they could abuse, work to death, control completely and who would not be able to escape. Poor whites, that could have been the workers, lost opportunities for jobs. Not every white person was a land owner. I’m not sure how they benefited from slavery. The people that benefit from racial tension are our ruling class. Get to the polls and vote for our guy or “these people are going to punish you. “

I would argue that the powers that be foment racism as a wedge to drive people apart who should be more natural allies. On the Right you have the “they’re taking your jobs” crew or the fears of increased diversity as demographics change. Trump pushes this constantly and you see it on the Twitter sphere as righties push the idea that “they” are coming for you. The Left uses “whiteness” to describe every issue that pops up. Is every cop related death based on racism? Could it be we are doing an inadequate job selecting and training police? Nah it’s whiteness. What if it’s a black police officer? It’s internalized whiteness. Whitensss, like the Force, surrounds us and binds us. There’s no escape. You’re either racist of anti racist. Most likely racist until proven otherwise. It takes away any sense of agency from minorities and dashes hopes it can be better. Is that a reason we are seeing a spike in suicide among black children? White people being special (even in a bad way) and all powerful is basically what Richard Spencer types believe.

One reason I do not buy into the “whiteness” arguments is because they paint everything with a broad brush and have often been developed by white people from wealthy families who are projecting their life experience onto every white person in the USA. White people do not tend to be monolithic and divide themselves into categories based on economic class, religion, region of birth and so on. I have far more in common with my black and Hispanic neighbors than I do Bill Gates or some scion of wealth at Harvard. Are we the exact same? Of course not. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to be black or Hispanic. At the same time my neighbors don’t know what it’s like to use a wheelchair. But we essentially want the same things in life. Good schools for the kids, a good place to live, access to medical care and jobs etc. Our commonalities get lost in this discourse and I can’t help but feel that is by design. We can work together to improve the country and fight against inequality but we’d rather drive this wedge and make each other the enemy and ensure nothing gets done. Again.

There is undeniably racial problems in this country and racism does continue to be an issue. It’s good to ask tough questions. To get people to be more introspective about their feelings or actions. To be more proactive in fighting racism and supporting minority efforts and organizations. However, I don’t think labeling every white person as a benefactor of white supremacy is helpful or accurate. Studies have shown that teaching white privilege not only doesn’t work but is counter productive. It doesn’t help the struggle of black Americans it only makes people dislike white people. That’s why you can have well-off white kids mocking a white homeless guy for not taking advantage of his white privilege.

It is just weird to me how the ideas of class playing any role in society has completely vanished from our national conversations. We’re just expected to believe even the poorest of the poor of white people have the same experiences and opportunities as trust fund kids and they don’t face discrimination from the elites.

 

[SystemShock]

Bottom line-----Jackson gets a pass, others don't. Jackson is ignorant. Brees should have known better. Jackson apologized, all is good. Brees apologized, not accepted by very many. Jenkins is passionate about one thing, doesn't say jack about Jackson's BS. It goes on and on......................................

I still don't get this insistence of comparing the two situations and the two people involved in each, nor why is Jenkins is now expected to be the voice of the oppressed people everywhere.

I hope you don't listen to rap, for your heart's sake

 

[littlebilly3]

what is the criteria for 'understanding' something that you disagree with?

I am curious how that worked. This isn’t a “gotcha” question. I’d honestly like to hear the reasoning. It seems counterintuitive as slave owners owned slaves to have workers that they could abuse, work to death, control completely and who would not be able to escape. Poor whites, that could have been the workers, lost opportunities for jobs. Not every white person was a land owner. I’m not sure how they benefited from slavery. The people that benefit from racial tension are our ruling class. Get to the polls and vote for our guy or “these people are going to punish you. “

I would argue that the powers that be foment racism as a wedge to drive people apart who should be more natural allies. On the Right you have the “they’re taking your jobs” crew or the fears of increased diversity as demographics change. Trump pushes this constantly and you see it on the Twitter sphere as righties push the idea that “they” are coming for you. The Left uses “whiteness” to describe every issue that pops up. Is every cop related death based on racism? Could it be we are doing an inadequate job selecting and training police? Nah it’s whiteness. What if it’s a black police officer? It’s internalized whiteness. Whitensss, like the Force, surrounds us and binds us. There’s no escape. You’re either racist of anti racist. Most likely racist until proven otherwise. It takes away any sense of agency from minorities and dashes hopes it can be better. Is that a reason we are seeing a spike in suicide among black children? White people being special (even in a bad way) and all powerful is basically what Richard Spencer types believe.

One reason I do not buy into the “whiteness” arguments is because they paint everything with a broad brush and have often been developed by white people from wealthy families who are projecting their life experience onto every white person in the USA. White people do not tend to be monolithic and divide themselves into categories based on economic class, religion, region of birth and so on. I have far more in common with my black and Hispanic neighbors than I do Bill Gates or some scion of wealth at Harvard. Are we the exact same? Of course not. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to be black or Hispanic. At the same time my neighbors don’t know what it’s like to use a wheelchair. But we essentially want the same things in life. Good schools for the kids, a good place to live, access to medical care and jobs etc. Our commonalities get lost in this discourse and I can’t help but feel that is by design. We can work together to improve the country and fight against inequality but we’d rather drive this wedge and make each other the enemy and ensure nothing gets done. Again.

There is undeniably racial problems in this country and racism does continue to be an issue. It’s good to ask tough questions. To get people to be more introspective about their feelings or actions. To be more proactive in fighting racism and supporting minority efforts and organizations. However, I don’t think labeling every white person as a benefactor of white supremacy is helpful or accurate. Studies have shown that teaching white privilege not only doesn’t work but is counter productive. It doesn’t help the struggle of black Americans it only makes people dislike white people. That’s why you can have well-off white kids mocking a white homeless guy for not taking advantage of his white privilege.

It is just weird to me how the ideas of class playing any role in society has completely vanished from our national conversations. We’re just expected to believe even the poorest of the poor of white people have the same experiences and opportunities as trust fund kids and they don’t face discrimination from the elites.

i have been lurking on this forum for a long while and I very rarely post anything. Definitely not on political topics but I agree with everything you just said. Very well thought out and written. Kudos sir

 

[SystemShock]

It is just weird to me how the ideas of class playing any role in society has completely vanished from our national conversations. We’re just expected to believe even the poorest of the poor of white people have the same experiences and opportunities as trust fund kids and they don’t face discrimination from the elites.

I am going to butcher your very well written post because this is a good point, and I agree with it, because I've seen it, and been part of it, and to a certain extent, I still am. Even among the so called elite, not all elites are made equal. There is old money vs new money, lineage, race/ethnicity, etc.

The one thing I'd say, and this is not a counterpoint, more like my point of view, I see it as a stack model, if you will; this is going to be an oversimplification and a bit of an abstraction, but the higher you are on the stack, the easier things are for you; the lower you are, the harder things are for you. And the composition of the stack is going to depend on where you are, i.e., which is the "dominant" group in that society/culture.

If you allow me the stereotypes to demonstrate my point, the white kid in the trailer park and the black kid in the ghetto, they both are going to have a hard time getting out of their situations. However, the white kid will have a relatively easier time (how much easier, that's an argument for another time) than the black kid because the white kid is closer to the elite class on the stack.

A lot is said about slavery and how has affected black people in the U.S., but I think that the period of social, political, and economic oppression after slavery was much, much more damaging to black people today than slavery itself.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Also it isn’t the job of black people to call out other black people who do or say wrong things. Whites people aren’t asked to do this so black people shouldn’t have to do it. Anybody in this thread who is using that notion is engaging in a disservice to the issues present.

Louder please

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I am curious how that worked. This isn’t a “gotcha” question. I’d honestly like to hear the reasoning. It seems counterintuitive as slave owners owned slaves to have workers that they could abuse, work to death, control completely and who would not be able to escape. Poor whites, that could have been the workers, lost opportunities for jobs. Not every white person was a land owner. I’m not sure how they benefited from slavery. The people that benefit from racial tension are our ruling class. Get to the polls and vote for our guy or “these people are going to punish you. “

I would argue that the powers that be foment racism as a wedge to drive people apart who should be more natural allies. On the Right you have the “they’re taking your jobs” crew or the fears of increased diversity as demographics change. Trump pushes this constantly and you see it on the Twitter sphere as righties push the idea that “they” are coming for you. The Left uses “whiteness” to describe every issue that pops up. Is every cop related death based on racism? Could it be we are doing an inadequate job selecting and training police? Nah it’s whiteness. What if it’s a black police officer? It’s internalized whiteness. Whitensss, like the Force, surrounds us and binds us. There’s no escape. You’re either racist of anti racist. Most likely racist until proven otherwise. It takes away any sense of agency from minorities and dashes hopes it can be better. Is that a reason we are seeing a spike in suicide among black children? White people being special (even in a bad way) and all powerful is basically what Richard Spencer types believe.

One reason I do not buy into the “whiteness” arguments is because they paint everything with a broad brush and have often been developed by white people from wealthy families who are projecting their life experience onto every white person in the USA. White people do not tend to be monolithic and divide themselves into categories based on economic class, religion, region of birth and so on. I have far more in common with my black and Hispanic neighbors than I do Bill Gates or some scion of wealth at Harvard. Are we the exact same? Of course not. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to be black or Hispanic. At the same time my neighbors don’t know what it’s like to use a wheelchair. But we essentially want the same things in life. Good schools for the kids, a good place to live, access to medical care and jobs etc. Our commonalities get lost in this discourse and I can’t help but feel that is by design. We can work together to improve the country and fight against inequality but we’d rather drive this wedge and make each other the enemy and ensure nothing gets done. Again.

There is undeniably racial problems in this country and racism does continue to be an issue. It’s good to ask tough questions. To get people to be more introspective about their feelings or actions. To be more proactive in fighting racism and supporting minority efforts and organizations. However, I don’t think labeling every white person as a benefactor of white supremacy is helpful or accurate. Studies have shown that teaching white privilege not only doesn’t work but is counter productive. It doesn’t help the struggle of black Americans it only makes people dislike white people. That’s why you can have well-off white kids mocking a white homeless guy for not taking advantage of his white privilege.

It is just weird to me how the ideas of class playing any role in society has completely vanished from our national conversations. We’re just expected to believe even the poorest of the poor of white people have the same experiences and opportunities as trust fund kids and they don’t face discrimination from the elites.

I actually have no problem with this (and other issues it applies to) are framed as power imbalance and the way to correct it is to rebalance

However
While poor whites might not have directly benefited from slavery ( I just don’t know one way or the other but it makes sense)
Try most certainly have benefited more than freed blacks since emancipation (Jim Crow, redlining, et al)
Poor whites were certainly empowered by rich whites to limit freed blacks
(Similar to how every 2nd generation immigrant wave was empowered to shield ‘natives’ from new immigrants)

To redress the imbalance, African Americans (not just ADOS) will need to be made whole
-
Now other groups/subsets might also have a claim for redress, but they should address that on their own and not try to use it a some zero sum attack on racial rebalancing

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

I still don't get this insistence of comparing the two situations and the two people involved in each, nor why is Jenkins is now expected to be the voice of the oppressed people everywhere.

I hope you don't listen to rap, for your heart's sake

I'm not insisting jackola. But since we're here. Two NFL players. One refers to Hitler. One refers to respecting the flag and it's veterans. Let's add the third-Jenkins............

 

[Mojomajik9]

If you allow me the stereotypes to demonstrate my point, the white kid in the trailer park and the black kid in the ghetto, they both are going to have a hard time getting out of their situations. However, the white kid will have a relatively easier time (how much easier, that's an argument for another time) than the black kid because the white kid is closer to the elite class on the stack.

Thank you for your response and I agree with this. I also find it to be a more powerful and persuasive tool to discuss hurdles different minorities groups face. One of my first jobs was a dish washer in mid scale restaurant and I will always remember a waitress coming to the back crying. She was of Afro Caribbean descent (Dominican if I remember right) but her customer asked what her ethnicity was because she had an accent and the guy said, “oh you’re a N word of the sea.” It was awful beyond words and when you see or hear about such moments it’s 100x more moving and powerful than nearly anything else, imo.

I fear the personal testimonies of that kind are getting lost in this sea of more academic discourse that unless you’re well versed in the field of sociology you will be left confused as you try to decipher what’s someone really trying to say.

 

[Mojomajik9]

I actually have no problem with this (and other issues it applies to) are framed as power imbalance and the way to correct it is to rebalance

However
While poor whites might not have directly benefited from slavery ( I just don’t know one way or the other but it makes sense)
Try most certainly have benefited more than freed blacks since emancipation (Jim Crow, redlining, et al)
Poor whites were certainly empowered by rich whites to limit freed blacks
(Similar to how every 2nd generation immigrant wave was empowered to shield ‘natives’ from new immigrants)

To redress the imbalance, African Americans (not just ADOS) will need to be made whole
-
Now other groups/subsets might also have a claim for redress, but they should address that on their own and not try to use it a some zero sum attack on racial rebalancing

thanks for the reply, Guido. I agree that wealthy whites spurred poorer whites towards racism. I’m not an historian but just from casual reading it seems like from Reconstruction onwards racism was fomented by the powerful to entrench their power. To get votes and to get poor whites to vote against their best interest or so businesses could scare white employees about unionizing or popularizing safety measures or better pay.

I tend to believe lower class whites and minorities have more shared concerns than not and if we could just break this cycle and come together then real change is possible. Reforming systems of power doesn’t just benefit black Americans but Hispanics, Native Americans and lower class whites too.

Maybe that sounds like too much pie in the sky. The needs of each racial community can and should be addressed; laws need to be changed, institutions reformed etc. the best way to do that, IMO, is not by dividing but by illustrating why we all benefit from a more equal system

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

thanks for the reply, Guido. I agree that wealthy whites spurred poorer whites towards racism. I’m not an historian but just from casual reading it seems like from Reconstruction onwards racism was fomented by the powerful to entrench their power. To get votes and to get poor whites to vote against their best interest or so businesses could scare white employees about unionizing or popularizing safety measures or better pay.

I tend to believe lower class whites and minorities have more shared concerns than not and if we could just break this cycle and come together then real change is possible. Reforming systems of power doesn’t just benefit black Americans but Hispanics, Native Americans and lower class whites too.

Maybe that sounds like too much pie in the sky. The needs of each racial community can and should be addressed; laws need to be changed, institutions reformed etc. the best way to do that, IMO, is not by dividing but by illustrating why we all benefit from a more equal system

agree with all of that

i'd say the best way to approach this is media literacy - being able to spot exploitative propaganda before it roots

 

[B4YOU]

For those asking about Micheal Jenkins’ opinion:

 

[RaginCajun83]

Just in: Eagles fine Jackson for conduct detrimental to team

 

[Saint Kamara]

Brees talks about honoring his grandfather and chooses an insensitive time to say something.

Shannon Sharpe calls on him to retire.

Jackson quotes (incorrectly or not) Hitler.

Shannon Sharpe says that we are being hypersensitive.


The double standard is mindboggling. It's not whether Drew carries more weight or not. It is the response from the rest of the NFL community that is hypocrisy at its core, and paints the NFL in a horrible light.

It's all total crap and invalidates the entire movement.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

At best he spoke from a position of ignorance.

Best case scenario, we shouldn’t take him seriously, because he spews ignorance. He’s an ex-athlete like Larry Bird, not an expert on politics or civil right. He hasn’t earned this type of platform.

 

[DaveXA]

I actually have no problem with this (and other issues it applies to) are framed as power imbalance and the way to correct it is to rebalance

However
While poor whites might not have directly benefited from slavery ( I just don’t know one way or the other but it makes sense)
Try most certainly have benefited more than freed blacks since emancipation (Jim Crow, redlining, et al)
Poor whites were certainly empowered by rich whites to limit freed blacks
(Similar to how every 2nd generation immigrant wave was empowered to shield ‘natives’ from new immigrants)

To redress the imbalance, African Americans (not just ADOS) will need to be made whole
-
Now other groups/subsets might also have a claim for redress, but they should address that on their own and not try to use it a some zero sum attack on racial rebalancing

At the risk of going just a bit astray, I think an example to illustrate how a poor white individual might have a different experience than a poor minority could be that they might not receive the same treatment from LEOs, or teachers, or other people who are in authority and prejudiced and can get away with it to some degree. I don’t know how true or widespread it is today, but it makes sense to me that this could be the case.

Both are in tough situations, but they're not necessarily equally tough. That said, I do think those poor of all backgrounds have enough in common to pull together and have their interests represented in public forums. I dunno, just throwing that out there for thought