N/S - Now Brady thinks he's FDR (1 Viewer)

Cincy Saint

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With all the concerns on the SSF about players' statements and actions, I thought it would be fun to pile some hate on the new kid in the NFCS, Tom Brady.

He is openly defying the NFL, NFLPA, and every public health expert in the US by continuing to put his family and his teammates at risk by practicing. Today he quoted FDR on IG "Only thing we have to fear, is fear itself," ignoring the 121,809 deaths (as of today) of US citizens. Brady may be more obsessed than even Jordan as now he is putting the health of others over his need to succeed at sports and prove he can win without Belacheat.

I've always hated the "pretty boy" because he gets SO much credit for SB wins that were supported by very good defensive teams. (I'm not saying he's not a great QB). The primetime game when the Saints crushed the Pats at the Dome is my favorite Saints' regular season game of all time.

So let's hear it...what do you think about Brady?
 

panther17

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Well, actually, Brees has the stats. ;)
Brady's stats are still impressive. People act like he doesn't have numbers besides SB.

Honest question. People like to knock Brady for having a good defense to help win those championships. Would Brees still have all those stats without having to try to overcome the second worst defense of the last decade? Is it possible while the defense held Brees back from winning more rings, did it enable him to put up some stats?
 

ASaintFerLife

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With all the concerns on the SSF about players' statements and actions, I thought it would be fun to pile some hate on the new kid in the NFCS, Tom Brady.

He is openly defying the NFL, NFLPA, and every public health expert in the US by continuing to put his family and his teammates at risk by practicing. Today he quoted FDR on IG "Only thing we have to fear, is fear itself," ignoring the 121,809 deaths (as of today) of US citizens. Brady may be more obsessed than even Jordan as now he is putting the health of others over his need to succeed at sports and prove he can win without Belacheat.

I've always hated the "pretty boy" because he gets SO much credit for SB wins that were supported by very good defensive teams. (I'm not saying he's not a great QB). The primetime game when the Saints crushed the Pats at the Dome is my favorite Saints' regular season game of all time.

So let's hear it...what do you think about Brady?
I have zero fear in the virus I trust in Jesus.
 

Pocket Hercules

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Brady's stats are still impressive. People act like he doesn't have numbers besides SB.

Honest question. People like to knock Brady for having a good defense to help win those championships. Would Brees still have all those stats without having to try to overcome the second worst defense of the last decade? Is it possible while the defense held Brees back from winning more rings, did it enable him to put up some stats?
That's a fair question, but Brady and Brees have both put up their fair share of 40 and 50-point blowouts regardless of how many points are sitting on the other side of the scoreboard. No lead is safe in the NFL, and Sean Payton is an aggressive coach. I can absolutely see similar stats if the defense had been better. I mean, look at Brady: it is an undeniable fact that he has had significantly better defenses, and yet, he has great stats. Not quite Drew Brees stats, and he's played more games, but still great stats.

And if I am granting that your question is fair, you also have to concede this question as being fair: might Drew's numbers be even better if his defenses forced more turnovers and gave him more possessions? Might his numbers be better if his defenses didn't allow the opposing offense to walk the ball down the field all game and burn up time of possession? Might Drew have far less interceptions and more TD's and points if he didn't have to force footballs in a desperate attempt to keep up on the scoreboard, KNOWING that most of his defenses were going to bleed points on the other side?

The reality is probably that the answer to your question is somewhat yes, and the answer to my question is also somewhat yes - easily enough to offset any statistical negatives precipitated by having a stronger defense.

The eye test says a lot. When you watch Drew throw the ball and watch Brady throw the ball, you appreciate very quickly that they read defenses at the line of scrimmage and rarely are surprised by what the defense does after the snap. Brady has always had a slightly better arm, but Brees has always been more accurate and gets rid of the ball quicker. Even when you factor INT's into the equation, Brees is still definitively the higher rated passer. They're both masters of their craft, and when you isolate pure QB play, there's no way anyone can prove that Brady is more responsible for team success than Brees has been.
 

Loose Cannon

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They're both masters of their craft, and when you isolate pure QB play, there's no way anyone can prove that Brady is more responsible for team success than Brees has been.
That's the difficult part. Payton is an offensive genius and so is Bill, and we've never seen Brady outside of that system.

If we're being honest, they've probably both benefited from the systems they're in. We've seen Bill have success with other QBs. We saw Brees perform at a "very good QB" level in San Diego but not hit "great" until he got together with Payton. And we also saw Payton succeed with a lesser QB in Bridgewater. Like you said, it's really hard to separate the coach and system from the player with these two. We'll learn a little bit in Tampa, but it's so late in Brady's career that we may not be able to really make any judgements from it.

I actually think the 2000s/2010s QB argument is more complex than most do. I'm not even entirely confident that if you took Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers and put them with Payton or Belicheck that they wouldn't have had very similar success to Brady/Brees. But, they weren't and they didn't and so it goes. In the super-passing era of the NFL (call it the last 20 years) there are three QBs head and shoulders above the rest. Brady, Brees, and Manning. That's a universal truth. "Great" is a combination of talent and luck to be in the right place in the right system at the right time. It's not always fair - just ask John Stockton or Kevin Garnett.

To the football watching world outside of Saints fans, the rings will set Brady apart. It also may not be fair, but it makes sense. It's not really much different from the Lebron/Jordan debate, honestly.
 
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Pocket Hercules

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That's the difficult part. Payton is an offensive genius and so is Bill, and we've never seen Brady outside of that system.

If we're being honest, they've probably both benefited from the systems they're in. We've seen Bill have success with other QBs. We saw Brees perform at a "very good QB" level in San Diego but not hit "great" until he got together with Payton. And we also saw Payton succeed with a lesser QB in Bridgewater. Like you said, it's really hard to separate the coach and system from the player with these two. We'll learn a little bit in Tampa, but it's so late in Brady's career that we may not be able to really make any judgements from it.

I actually think the 2000s/2010s QB argument is more complex than most do. I'm not even entirely confident that if you took Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers and put them with Payton or Belicheck that they wouldn't have had very similar success to Brady/Brees. But, they weren't and they didn't and so it goes. In the super-passing era of the NFL (call it the last 20 years) there are three QBs head and shoulders above the rest. Brady, Brees, and Manning. That's a universal truth. "Great" is a combination of talent and luck to be in the right place in the right system at the right time. It's not always fair - just ask John Stockton or Kevin Garnett.

To the football watching world outside of Saints fans, the rings will set Brady apart. It also may not be fair, but it makes sense. It's not really much different from the Lebron/Jordan debate, honestly.
Good post and I hate to nitpick any of it, but I'll make two comments:
  1. The Saints may have managed to go 5-0 with TB last year, but the QB play in those five games was all over the board. We were fortunate to win the dallass and JAX games, where TB was bad to terrible. I won't hold the LA or SEA games against him, because they were very difficult situations to be thrust into, but he didn't play well in those games either. The CHI game was impressive, and while the TB game was statistically impressive, it was a home game against a bad team.
  2. Aaron Rodgers probably sets his own floor with historically great physical talent and limits his own ceiling with his arrogance and his attitude. I lived in Packerland for five years until about a year ago, and the natives are pretty much in agreement on this. HOF player regardless, but not sure being paired with a Belichick or Payton helps him be a better player. If anything, he's probably benefitted by being paired with dudes he can roll without creating more controversy than he has.
 

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Good post and I hate to nitpick any of it, but I'll make two comments:
  1. The Saints may have managed to go 5-0 with TB last year, but the QB play in those five games was all over the board. We were fortunate to win the dallass and JAX games, where TB was bad to terrible. I won't hold the LA or SEA games against him, because they were very difficult situations to be thrust into, but he didn't play well in those games either. The CHI game was impressive, and while the TB game was statistically impressive, it was a home game against a bad team
  2. Aaron Rodgers probably sets his own floor with historically great physical talent and limits his own ceiling with his arrogance and his attitude. I lived in Packerland for five years until about a year ago, and the natives are pretty much in agreement on this. HOF player regardless, but not sure being paired with a Belichick or Payton helps him be a better player. If anything, he's probably benefitted by being paired with dudes he can roll without creating more controversy than he has.
Yeah, I mean I definitely agree with the notion that the QB play with Teddy was inferior to Brees - thus the "he went 5-0 with a lesser QB" or whatever I said in the OP (too lazy to go back and look). I disagree with your assessment of Teddy (played well vs. Seattle, did what was asked vs. Jax, played subpar vs. Dallas) but that's not for this thread.

Good point on Rodgers. It's hard for me to figure out what he'd have done with a coach that he actually has some respect for. I think part of the problem with Rodgers is that he thinks he knows more about offensive football than the coaches he's had. And it's very possible he's right. Mike McCarthy is a garbage playcaller. If he were in a situation where he actually felt like he could learn from his coach (a Payton, Reid, Bill type) he might have approached the game differently.

But either way I guess point is, I could see an alternate universe where 3-4 other QBS from the pass-happy era play under Bellicheck/Payton and end up in the HOF. Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger (though he's HOF anyway), maybe Matt Ryan (MAYBE). And I can absolutely see an alternate universe where Peyton Manning (who I really don't like at all) ends up as the unanimous GOAT under one of those coaches.
 
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sfbaysaint

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With all the concerns on the SSF about players' statements and actions, I thought it would be fun to pile some hate on the new kid in the NFCS, Tom Brady.

He is openly defying the NFL, NFLPA, and every public health expert in the US by continuing to put his family and his teammates at risk by practicing. Today he quoted FDR on IG "Only thing we have to fear, is fear itself," ignoring the 121,809 deaths (as of today) of US citizens. Brady may be more obsessed than even Jordan as now he is putting the health of others over his need to succeed at sports and prove he can win without Belacheat.

I've always hated the "pretty boy" because he gets SO much credit for SB wins that were supported by very good defensive teams. (I'm not saying he's not a great QB). The primetime game when the Saints crushed the Pats at the Dome is my favorite Saints' regular season game of all time.

So let's hear it...what do you think about Brady?
Players have contracts that prevents them from engaging in dangerous activities like cliff diving (which Brady did). Contracting a virus which can potentially damage your lungs, kidney and other organs should probably be on the list.
 

sfbaysaint

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i am SO tired of this take
can a grown adult make the decision to drink a case of beer and get behind the wheel of a car?
yes, obviously
is it a decision that could have profound consequences for others who don't get a say in the 'grown adult's' decision
yes, obviously

to varying degrees all of our decisions have an impact on those around us
This is the thinking that has people out there protesting that they cannot be forced to wear a mask.
 

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Actually compare him to LeBron, who is on record saying that he would be upset if they don't finish the season and playoffs. You think he cares about Covid deaths?
Lilbron is one of those typical multi-millionaire athletes, with piles of money due to his physical ability but of little intelligence. There are very many just like him. Self centered, self serving, regardless if he REALLY knows better, or not. All about ME!!
 

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Lilbron is one of those typical multi-millionaire athletes, with piles of money due to his physical ability but of little intelligence. There are very many just like him. Self centered, self serving, regardless if he REALLY knows better, or not. All about ME!!
LeBron is an incredibly intelligent person, both on and off the court. I don't always agree with him (LeChina) but he's a smart guy. I can't imagine what about him makes you think he's not intelligent.

As far as the "all about ME!", you should do some reading on his work in Akron. He absolutely is not "all about himself". He cares deeply for his communiy.
 
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My Brady Theory:

He's got enough Super Bowl wins that his legacy as a winner is maxed out. He could go 16-0 with Tampa or 0-16 and it won't affect his winning legacy.

But he *really cares* about retiring with the all-time passing yards and TDs records. Whoever has those records out of the Manning/Brady/Brees generation will hold those records for a while. Eventually Mahomes or Burrow or Minshew II will end up passing them. But that's a generation away.

But, of course, it conflicts with his "all Brady cares about is winning" image to admit that he cares as much as he does about his individual numbers. So he can't be open about it.

So here's my conspiracy theory. Brady and the Bucs have entered into a marriage of convenience. Brady signs with the Bucs (and convinces Gronkowisk to come along), and the team sells a bunch more tickets and jerseys. In exchange, Arians has promised Brady that he'll let him just chuck it up all day. Wins and losses don't really matter. The sole focus of the Bucs offense will be getting Brady the records.

If this season is cancelled, all that goes away. He care more about the records than about health and safety.
Wow! You threw Menshew in there. I like the guy but seriously?
 

saint_drago

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And if I am granting that your question is fair, you also have to concede this question as being fair: might Drew's numbers be even better if his defenses forced more turnovers and gave him more possessions? Might his numbers be better if his defenses didn't allow the opposing offense to walk the ball down the field all game and burn up time of possession? Might Drew have far less interceptions and more TD's and points if he didn't have to force footballs in a desperate attempt to keep up on the scoreboard, KNOWING that most of his defenses were going to bleed points on the other side?
Great post and I found this part particularly fascinating. I've heard a lot of people talk about Drew's numbers being inflated due to piling up stats playing in shootouts with bad defenses. And it's true I guess but you present the flip side of the coin.

We've seen QBs put up eye popping numbers playing with good to great defenses. Peyton Manning had a few great statistical seasons with the Broncos and their defense. Most of those Colts teams had good to great defenses under Tony Dungy. The one year that the Colts had a flat out terrible defense was 2001. Manning went 6-10 and posted his third worst QB Rating behind only his rookie season and his last season. His Int percentage that year was 4.2%. To put that number in perspective Brees' highest Int percentage was 3.3% in 2010. That's the only time he went above 3% in NO.

Brees has put up insane numbers with historically bad defenses but he's put up insane numbers with really good defenses. He's gone over 5,000 yards with the #32 defense. He's gone over 5,000 yards with the #4 defense. He has been remarkably consistent considering his defenses have been all over the map.
 

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