NBA 2020 Season and Playoffs (8 Viewers)

Dago

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I'm not saying Gentry is passing the proverbial buck. Where I am coming from - if you're talking about a player growing and a team gelling, then you capitalize on opportunities.

You have a game close, late. This is something you can try to replicate in practice, but you can't, really. These situations are ideal opportunities to learn something about your team and their players. It's an ideal learning opportunity.

You're playing a good team who has given you fits over mismatches the entire game and you're still close. So how do you close out a game? What might Zion's role be?

Again, I understand if the 'season is lost' is the mindset, then it doesn't matter. But if the goal is to use the season as a learning and assessment opportunity, then I understand this less. If there's a legit medical reason, of course that takes precedence. But a strict minute-management is never going to be precise. And maybe conversations were happening during the game leading up to it and Zion wasn't feeling it.

I just felt like it was poor coaching - which is generally my take on Gentry - because it's just such a good opportunity to have on the floor who you want on the floor and learn.

And the decision was also not in a vacuum for me - it was in context. And he wasn't coaching well during the game. Poor planning and letting them gash off the pick and rolls and high screens. No coaching when they were gashing the defense and getting to the lane too easily. Half-hearted BLOBs - it really was JJ, I'm convinced, who finally said, after one SLOB, that he was gonna take and stick a 3.

I just don't know that he even identified it.

Personally, the reason that made the most sense for me was when Zion was in, they were -16 or something. That's not exactly the stat line you want in the final minutes of a close game. And I think it was the defensive collapse in the end that really sealed their fate.

I don't really care about losing the game, it happens. It just felt to Gentry-esque from beginning to end. Situational basketball is just really hard to watch in these games.
defensive collapse coupled with poor shooting and an unwillingness to get aggressive and go inside
Derrick Favors was moving around like my father.....problem is that my dad is 70 years old
 

bonnjer

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we lost by 2.

not 20.
Even more reason to have them in there. Tight game, pressure situation. So let's say we happen to get lucky and make it to the playoffs. We get down to that tight, last minute situation. You want these guys without that experience? I don't. I just don't agree with Gentry's decision to have Zion on the bench so much. I've had the same complaint with Jaxson Hayes' treatment for a while.
 

Mr. Blue Sky

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Ya gotta help me understand this....we have the No 1 pick at age of 20 and we are walking on eggshells regarding his minutes so we can keep him healthy???? So is there some underlying medical condition im not aware of that forces us to do this?


He had a moderately serious injury his final year of college , and a moderately serious injury in his first couple months as a Pelican.. Again, some of yall make it seem like he’s a third year NBA player who’s only played in 25% of his games over three years.. He’s not, he’s almost brand new, and due to circumstances beyond anyone’s control (injuries and a global pandemic) there hasn’t been much of a sample size.. i dont think it’s a good idea to go all-out with him yet.. Geez Louise, now i honestly wish the team had said ‘**** it, he’s not playing’ last night, i think then some of the bellyaching by the fans would have at least been tolerable.
 

efil4stnias

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Even more reason to have them in there. Tight game, pressure situation. So let's say we happen to get lucky and make it to the playoffs. We get down to that tight, last minute situation. You want these guys without that experience? I don't. I just don't agree with Gentry's decision to have Zion on the bench so much. I've had the same complaint with Jaxson Hayes' treatment for a while.
Oh i was in full agreement- i was just saying we lost by 2 to point out the veracity of what you were saying.

Put the best 5 you got on the floor for the final 5-7 min. period.

i think part of our issue is we have a bevy of "good" players. Problem with that is they all want minutes. Well, at some point, some will have to accept their "role" on this team if the goal is unified. ( to win a championship )
 
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Oye

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He had a moderately serious injury his final year of college , and a moderately serious injury in his first couple months as a Pelican.. Again, some of yall make it seem like he’s a third year NBA player who’s only played in 25% of his games over three years.. He’s not, he’s almost brand new, and due to circumstances beyond anyone’s control (injuries and a global pandemic) there hasn’t been much of a sample size.. i dont think it’s a good idea to go all-out with him yet.. Geez Louise, now i honestly wish the team had said ‘**** it, he’s not playing’ last night, i think then some of the bellyaching by the fans would have at least been tolerable.
if you want a more nuanced discussion about it, there's one to be had.

e.g. I never said he should have played the entire game and laid out my objections pretty explicitly, I thought. And tried to do it in a reasonable manner. But it got misconstrued/misrepresented and we're just not gonna get back around to it, I guess
 

efil4stnias

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He had a moderately serious injury his final year of college , and a moderately serious injury in his first couple months as a Pelican.. Again, some of yall make it seem like he’s a third year NBA player who’s only played in 25% of his games over three years.. He’s not, he’s almost brand new, and due to circumstances beyond anyone’s control (injuries and a global pandemic) there hasn’t been much of a sample size.. i dont think it’s a good idea to go all-out with him yet.. Geez Louise, now i honestly wish the team had said ‘**** it, he’s not playing’ last night, i think then some of the bellyaching by the fans would have at least been tolerable.
ok so we have 2 "moderately" serious injuries in a span of 15 months.

And im not treating him like a 3rd year player who has only played 25% of his games over three years. Im treating him like a 20 year old player whose played in 10% of games his first year and with that, STILL averaged 23 pts/7 or 8 bds a game. Who is once again, on a "minutes played restriction".

Injury is inevitable if he is predisposed to have one. Its really that simple.

I would argue that this "minutes restriction" is going to lead to one. You cant have an athlete like him play , with adrenaline, for 2-3 minutes, then sit him for 20 min, ( muscles get cold ) and then return him to the court and expect him to pick up where he left off 20 min ago.

Its akin to buying a high performance auto and never "opening the throttle" because you are worried about blowing the engine.

When the engine is DESIGNED to go at 5000 rpm.

Not 2500.

its just maddening to me as a Pels fan to see this young mans game be stifled.
 

DaveXA

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if you want a more nuanced discussion about it, there's one to be had.

e.g. I never said he should have played the entire game and laid out my objections pretty explicitly, I thought. And tried to do it in a reasonable manner. But it got misconstrued/misrepresented and we're just not gonna get back around to it, I guess
Indeed. He only played 15 minutes. Let him play the last 5 minutes and get him some experience in crunch time and that's still less than half the game. Situational coaching. Simple as that.
 
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Oye

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Indeed. He only played 15 minutes. Let him play the last 5 minutes and get him some experience in crunch time and that's still less than half the game. Situational coaching. Simple as that.
It doesn't even have to be five minutes. The last minute and a half - it's good situational basketball. That's what I am more interested in. And to try and frame this as disregard for his overall, incl future, development as a player is off base. If his medical condition bars that, fine - I have no problem with that. I just haven't heard anything compelling on par with Gentry. And he hasn't earned much in the way of benefit of the doubt. So yes, I am skeptical by default. Because his situational game awareness leaves something to be desired, imo.
 

efil4stnias

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I'm not saying Gentry is passing the proverbial buck. Where I am coming from - if you're talking about a player growing and a team gelling, then you capitalize on opportunities.

You have a game close, late. This is something you can try to replicate in practice, but you can't, really. These situations are ideal opportunities to learn something about your team and their players. It's an ideal learning opportunity.

You're playing a good team who has given you fits over mismatches the entire game and you're still close. So how do you close out a game? What might Zion's role be?

Again, I understand if the 'season is lost' is the mindset, then it doesn't matter. But if the goal is to use the season as a learning and assessment opportunity, then I understand this less. If there's a legit medical reason, of course that takes precedence. But a strict minute-management is never going to be precise. And maybe conversations were happening during the game leading up to it and Zion wasn't feeling it.

I just felt like it was poor coaching - which is generally my take on Gentry - because it's just such a good opportunity to have on the floor who you want on the floor and learn.

And the decision was also not in a vacuum for me - it was in context. And he wasn't coaching well during the game. Poor planning and letting them gash off the pick and rolls and high screens. No coaching when they were gashing the defense and getting to the lane too easily. Half-hearted BLOBs - it really was JJ, I'm convinced, who finally said, after one SLOB, that he was gonna take and stick a 3.

I just don't know that he even identified it.

Personally, the reason that made the most sense for me was when Zion was in, they were -16 or something. That's not exactly the stat line you want in the final minutes of a close game. And I think it was the defensive collapse in the end that really sealed their fate.

I don't really care about losing the game, it happens. It just felt to Gentry-esque from beginning to end. Situational basketball is just really hard to watch in these games.
If you have watched enough Pelican bball, this is it...situational basketball/awareness. He has been at the helm long enough to put forth his philosophy and what do we have to show for it?

abysmal defense/protection the boards and no real point scorer when it counts.
 

Mr. Blue Sky

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if you want a more nuanced discussion about it, there's one to be had.

e.g. I never said he should have played the entire game and laid out my objections pretty explicitly, I thought. And tried to do it in a reasonable manner. But it got misconstrued/misrepresented and we're just not gonna get back around to it, I guess



It’s all good, it’s all in the spirit of fun, this isnt life or death, it’s just basketball.. i feel like the team is doing the right thing with Zion (though i do think it would have been less controversial to just sit him last night).. and i dont think that Gentry is the answer at coach.
 

LAhotsauce

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So I guess they're just gonna let Gobert move on those screens, huh?

edit: And he just did it again...
I was shouting this at the tv all game.

He acts like he's just trying to get to another spot on the floor, meanwhile the ball handler just follows him on the way.

Gentry and his staff are supposed to point this out to the blind officials.
 

Dago

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I was shouting this at the tv all game.

He acts like he's just trying to get to another spot on the floor, meanwhile the ball handler just follows him on the way.

Gentry and his staff are supposed to point this out to the blind officials.
every coach of every team the Jazz have played has gotten in the officials ear about it
 

Dago

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It’s all good, it’s all in the spirit of fun, this isnt life or death, it’s just basketball.. i feel like the team is doing the right thing with Zion (though i do think it would have been less controversial to just sit him last night).. and i dont think that Gentry is the answer at coach.
like I have said before....if Zion is going to be so limited, don't put him in with the starters. it is a disruption to the chemistry and timing. let him just come off the bench and dominate some backups for 15-20 minutes
 

Grandadmiral

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This "medical team" mess is going to have Zion pulling an AD plan in a few years.
 
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I mowed my grass instead of watching and glad I did. Gentry is still an idiot blaming medical staff for the loss.
 

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