New Orleans Saints bring back 3-4 defense, and Jonathan Vilma's all for it (1 Viewer)

[retthib]

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2009/10/new_orleans_saints_bring_back_1.html

"I never said I didn't like it, " said Vilma, who will face his former team for the first time in the Superdome on Sunday. "My problem is that we were losing, and I like to be winning."

Im glad this was brought up, I was wondering how JV felt about playing the 3-4 more.

So I guess it's safe to say winning cures all.

"I don't call the game from a piece of paper, " said Williams, repeating one of his favorite mantras. "You have to take a look out there and try to be the quarterback too. That's what we do on defense.
"We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night."

Gotta love the guy. The new D he came up w/ last night will be used to stop Sanchez. LOL

 

[SaintlyAgenda]

I know that the 3-4 is not this defense's base defense but the 3-4 adds longevity to Vilma's career.

 

[retthib]

As GW said, JV is a FB player. He can play in any scheme. As long as we keep winning and the D is producing, no player will complain or be unhappy.

 

[Saintman2884]

I count myself as one of those who in the past pushed for a more 3-4 defensive alignment, and in some ways I still feel it could work. But I will say that in the past 10 years with teams like Pittsburgh and New England bringing the 3-4 defense back and winning numerous SB's with it, it's proven it can work again after some pundits thought it was outdated in the mid-to-late 90's. And for the first time I think in about 10-15 years, we have IMO a core group of LB's that can make that same system work here. But Vilma is the key to making it work, as well as being the man who we've gotten talent in FA or other players have stepped up their game more. Fujita is okay, Shanle is starting to become a more visible force, Vilma is,along with Darren Sharper and maybe Will Smith, if he can continue his good play onwards, the heart and soul of this defense.

This isn't going to be the Dome Patrol II, but it doesn't have to be. If you look at the biggest problem our defense has had the past 2 seasons, it's that it was looking for an identity. Gibbs wasn' taking it off the bat as opposed to resting on his laurels. GW doesn't follow that ****-line. He learned from one of the meanest, most ruthless DC's in NFL history that his job is not to be soft spoken and articulate schemes on a piece of paper. If every DC/HC could be like Tony Dungy and it robbed off on the team's players, then that would be great. But those types are an extreme exception rather then the general rule. Buddy Ryan would probably tell his teams to run over Mother Teresa if she was on the field wearing the opposing team's jersey, not trying to be cute but he was a mean ruthless SOB. He was the Larry Flynt of NFL DC's. Sleazy, hardcore, and made his teams feel like they could break every sacred NFL taboo every Sunday on the field.

We need that kind of guy running this Defense, and we got one of Buddy Ryan's finest graduates here to help us become that, if we aren't becoming it already.

 

[bkmowad]

from what i understand, the 3-4 the jets were running was a gap assignment scheme, and this didn't allow players to make plays.

 

[retthib]

I count myself as one of those who in the past pushed for a more 3-4 defensive alignment, and in some ways I still feel it could work. But I will say that in the past 10 years with teams like Pittsburgh and New England bringing the 3-4 defense back and winning numerous SB's with it, it's proven it can work again after some pundits thought it was outdated in the mid-to-late 90's. And for the first time I think in about 10-15 years, we have IMO a core group of LB's that can make that same system work here. But Vilma is the key to making it work, as well as being the man who we've gotten talent in FA or other players have stepped up their game more. Fujita is okay, Shanle is starting to become a more visible force, Vilma is,along with Darren Sharper and maybe Will Smith, if he can continue his good play onwards, the heart and soul of this defense.

This isn't going to be the Dome Patrol II, but it doesn't have to be. If you look at the biggest problem our defense has had the past 2 seasons, it's that it was looking for an identity. Gibbs wasn' taking it off the bat as opposed to resting on his laurels. GW doesn't follow that ****-line. He learned from one of the meanest, most ruthless DC's in NFL history that his job is not to be soft spoken and articulate schemes on a piece of paper. If every DC/HC could be like Tony Dungy and it robbed off on the team's players, then that would be great. But those types are an extreme exception rather then the general rule. Buddy Ryan would probably tell his teams to run over Mother Teresa if she was on the field wearing the opposing team's jersey, not trying to be cute but he was a mean ruthless SOB. He was the Larry Flynt of NFL DC's. Sleazy, hardcore, and filled his teams feeling they could break every sacred NFL taboo every Sunday on the field.

We need that kind of guy running this Defense, and we got one of Buddy Ryan's finest graduates here to help us become that, if we aren't becoming it already.

The fact that its harder to tell who's coming on a single play gives the 3-4 its advantages. So yes, the DC has to have a mean streak and be slightly twisted and aggressive. I love GWs attitude from day 1. The more we produce, the more confidence the D gets, the further we go in the long run.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

That "I came up with one last night" line had me ear to ear. I love to hear this guy talk football. Old school hard nose coach who teaches discipline and wants to see his players hit people.

 

[retthib]

from what i understand, the 3-4 the jets were running was a gap assignment scheme, and this didn't allow players to make plays.

I dont know about that. There sack #s is minimal compared to the time they blitz, but the QBs completion % is very low, so tha ttells me even if they not getting sacks, they forcing hurried throws & incomplete passes, which is just as good.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Actually, Williams said that Fujita played the 3-4 scheme from an OLB standpoint extremely well and made it a point to give him credit for his play against the Bills.

 

[Saintman2884]

Exactly Cali, I'm no Alabama fan(in fact I have nothing but contempt for them) but if you go to You Tube and watch clips of the 1979 Sugar Bowl between Penn State/Alabama. Two legendary NCAA HC's going at it in our very own Superdome, that is a blueprint of how you play dominating defense. Granted it's college football and it happened 30 years ago, but damn it those two teams were like brick walls slamming into one another all night long. Many long-time Alabama fans will tell you that was one NC that they had to earn the hard way, that famous goal line stand vs Penn State, the man who met PSU's RB at the top of the huddle broke his arm and walked off the field with his body nearly bent over sideways. But if he doesn't stop him, Penn State ties it at 14-14 and I'm not convinced anyone else scores after that, meaning the NC ends in a tie and a controversy ensues.

If Auburn can score 45+ points, that's great, in fact I hope we roll over everyone, but I'd feel just as happy to see them, if not more pleased, win with dominating defense. Make it to where if Tim Tebow tries to run outside the pocket thinking he's Superman-incarnate, where going to make sure he think twice after we cream his *** into next week, and no this time it would be a close game, not him getting garbage time ahead by 3 TD's in the 3rd quarter.

Intensity and playing with a violent edge. I want to make sure that when opposing teams come into the Superdome, our house, we make their days a living hell. We've done it before and we can do it again.

 

[davidstvz]

I think it depends on the type of 3-4. I got the impression before that the change in the Jets DC required Vilma to do things he wasn't comfortable with, i.e. asking him to match up physically at the line rather than use his agility and ball skills. GW has Vilma in a 3-4 where he can still exercise his talents.

 

[Malftap]

I know that the 3-4 is not this defense's base defense but the 3-4 adds longevity to Vilma's career.

How do you figure when in a 3-4 scheme your ILB's have to take on o-lines and not protected by the DT's? Vilma is not the biggest guy.

 

[Pdlc]

That "I came up with one last night" line had me ear to ear. I love to hear this guy talk football. Old school hard nose coach who teaches discipline and wants to see his players hit people.

Yeh man me too, I chuckled when I read that.

 

[saintsfan20]

How do you figure when in a 3-4 scheme your ILB's have to take on o-lines and not protected by the DT's? Sedrick Ellis is not the biggest guy.

* Fixed it for ya.

The ILBs are fine, as long as there is a big, nasty Nose Tackle constantly taking up 2 O-Linesmen (Center and 1 Guard), which figures out to be the same difference as a regular 4-3 Defense, just +1 Linebacker on the field to make plays.

This is how Ray Lewis is still playing, as he's had big Nose Tackles that occupy 2 guys, leaving Ray Lewis a relatively good chance at making a play up the middle.

The 3-4 is ONLY good if you have a solid Nose Tackle who constantly takes 2 guys.

Patriots - Vince Wilfork
Chargers - Jammal Williams
Steelers - Casey Hampton
Ravens - Kelly Gregg
Jets - Kris Jenkins

The reason some 3-4 Defenses just aren't as impressive is because they're missing that 1 Nose Tackle that frees up basically 2 MLBs to make plays.

We all recognize Ray Lewis as being one of the best MLBs to play in this "Era", a sure-fire Hall of Famer. Do you guys remember just a few short years ago, Ray Lewis had a down year..... do you guys remember what he said after that Season? He came out and told the Baltimore Ravens' GM "Go get me a big DT and I'll make my plays for ya."

That same Offseason, the Ravens drafted Haloti Ngata, who is freaking HUGE, and since then Ray Lewis has been doing great, once again.

 

[Bless U Boys]

There were a couple of things I noticed about the 3-4 after watching the game again:
1. Will Smith & Grant shot gaps extremely well. They can over-power guards with their bull-rush. Ellis also looked to penetrate over center, and didn't receive the double-teams he's had in the past.
2. Vilma and Mitchell can not play ILB if a lineman gets to the second level. Neither can get off blocks. JV did not have a great game last week.
3. McCray is not a stand up rusher from the outside lb position, or maybe his back really limited him. They used him alot on passing downs in the 3-4. Fugita looked good at times and Shanle was old reliable.

The line really excels in the 3-4, but out LB's don't fit the profile. It's a change of pace, but I don't like the way Vilma/Mitchell played the inside.