NFL being like WWE in that officials controls games? (2 Viewers)

[Surviving Saint]

There is no proof here just speculation. Find this so called research. How can you be believed if all you put forth is opinion?

It's not opinion. Do your own research. There is enough evidence if you look for it.

 

[Randy Jones]

You guys are pathetic. None of you have offered any proof or documentation that the NFL is fixing the outcomes of games. I have researched the idea and found no proof. Not one player, coach, nor staff member has ever been of accused or admitted to fixing a game on orders from the NFL.

Do you folks understand the enormity of the speculation and accusations you are making. Maintaining such tight secrecy over such a long period of time is almost impossible in today's media world. Somebody would have blab. In order to pull it off, the players, the coaches, and the FO would have to be guilty of collusion. I have a hard time imagining that the honesty and credibility of players like Drew Brees would/should be suspect. Include Sean Payton in that bunch as well.

In essence when you say this, you are saying that they are all crooked.

Have professional sports players shaved points or have they taken a dive. Sure. This is well documented and the FBI or the specific league has punished them for it when caught.

As I said before, it is common for folks to believe in conspiracy theories when the world does not conform to their belief system. Fortunately most conspiracy theories are just advanced by kooks. Unfortunately, some of the conspiracy theories gain some serious traction and groups like the Nazis and KKK gain credibility.

 

[duckjr78]

You guys are pathetic. None of you have offered any proof or documentation that the NFL is fixing the outcomes of games. I have researched the idea and found no proof. Not one player, coach, nor staff member has ever been of accused or admitted to fixing a game on orders from the NFL.

Do you folks understand the enormity of the speculation and accusations you are making. Maintaining such tight secrecy over such a long period of time is almost impossible in today's media world. Somebody would have blab. In order to pull it off, the players, the coaches, and the FO would have to be guilty of collusion. I have a hard time imagining that the honesty and credibility of players like Drew Brees would/should be suspect. Include Sean Payton in that bunch as well.

In essence when you say this, you are saying that they are all crooked.

Have professional sports players shaved points or have they taken a dive. Sure. This is well documented and the FBI or the specific league has punished them for it when caught.

As I said before, it is common for folks to believe in conspiracy theories when the world does not conform to their belief system. Fortunately most conspiracy theories are just advanced by kooks. Unfortunately, some of the conspiracy theories gain some serious traction and groups like the Nazis and KKK gain credibility.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Poncherello, why in the world are you throwing out the nazis and kkk when we are talking about football.

And calling us pathetic just because we have a different *harmless* opinions about an entertainment industry.

I think your scope of rationale may need adjusting.

 

[blackadder]

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Poncherello, why in the world are you throwing out the nazis and kkk when we are talking about football.

And calling us pathetic just because we have a different *harmless* opinions about an entertainment industry.

I think your scope of rationale may need adjusting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[duckjr78]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Yeah, but on page 3?

I mean, is that where we are today? On SR of all places?

Heck, one of the links I posted was a thread on SR from 2014 about this exact same subject. I think it made it to page 15 without invoking Godwin's Law.

Seriously though, cool little tidbit of knowledge you dropped on me there. Thank you!

 

[Surviving Saint]

Have professional sports players shaved points or have they taken a dive. Sure. This is well documented and the FBI or the specific league has punished them for it when caught.

OK. So you just admitted that some games were fixed. So what's stopping the fixing today? This is an entertainment business we are talking about by the way.

To see what we see, you have to remove the thought that this is a football game, from what you been taught to believe. You want to watch a football game between 2 competitive teams where the outcome isn't influenced? Watch high school football because beyond that you are watching point shaving and game throwing.

At the pro l

 

[gregh]

Welcome to being enlightened.

If you bet football, you'll never look at the NFL the same again once you start to see things through that lens. Once your eyes are open, you can never go back. It sucks knowing with 75% or so confidence before a Saints game whether we'll win or lose. But it is what it is. I made a thread before our last Falcons game breaking down the line movement and why Falcons +3.5 was being telegraphed. Got about 50 red-thumbs, but what happened? Falcons covered easily.

If I did not bet, I would not watch the NFL anymore. The product itself sucks now, mainly because of the officiating and over-saturation.

Some might ask "well, if they are influencing games, why would you bet on it!?" I bet on games precisely because they influence games. It's the only way you can really make money. You just learn to know what to look for in regards to lines, movement, and trends. If the games were just straight-up/matchup related, I wouldn't bet because it would make it much tougher.

The level to which you believe the NFL is corrupt may vary. Some just think they want to keep games close (how anyone could deny that I don't know). Some think they just influence certain games. Some believe in larger conspiracies.

Regardless, it's nice to see most at least are waking up to the fact that something is going on.

And there are multiple angles at play here. Gambling, ratings, and favoritism with the larger fanbases (which again ties in with ratings). You think the NFL doesn't want the biggest, most popular teams to succeed? Too much money at stake to have low-ratings fanbases have long term success. Fandom isn't really that fluid and the NFL isn't adding new viewers. People just stop watching if their team sucks. So they've gotta maximize the existing largest fan-bases to keep that ridiculous "25 billion in revenue" promise Goodell made.

This is a salary cap league, which should be a level paying field, yet almost all the big fanbases never stay bad for long while the smaller market teams rarely sustain success. Funny how that works. Funny how when Vegas needs a game to pay, they almost always seem to get it. Some will continue to stick their heads in the sand though.

when something has this much money flowing around its impossible for it not to be corrupt..

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

You guys are pathetic. None of you have offered any proof or documentation that the NFL is fixing the outcomes of games. I have researched the idea and found no proof. Not one player, coach, nor staff member has ever been of accused or admitted to fixing a game on orders from the NFL.

Do you folks understand the enormity of the speculation and accusations you are making. Maintaining such tight secrecy over such a long period of time is almost impossible in today's media world. Somebody would have blab. In order to pull it off, the players, the coaches, and the FO would have to be guilty of collusion. I have a hard time imagining that the honesty and credibility of players like Drew Brees would/should be suspect. Include Sean Payton in that bunch as well.

In essence when you say this, you are saying that they are all crooked.

Have professional sports players shaved points or have they taken a dive. Sure. This is well documented and the FBI or the specific league has punished them for it when caught.

As I said before, it is common for folks to believe in conspiracy theories when the world does not conform to their belief system. Fortunately most conspiracy theories are just advanced by kooks. Unfortunately, some of the conspiracy theories gain some serious traction and groups like the Nazis and KKK gain credibility.

Whoa. Back off with the name calling. Your opinion is valid, but not accurate - "In essence when you say this, you are saying that they are all crooked." - That would be the casein a league-wide conspiracy. You don't have to have the entire system on the take, just key players, officials. Deep down, I don't want to think it is going on, but I definitely have my doubts and not from a whining perspective.

 

[Randy Jones]

I am just saying be careful of conspiracy theories. I threw those two examples in for hyperbolic emphasis. However, in this case to satisfy the case for a conspiracy, there has to be proof of collusion. However, there are too many players and coaches of high moral fiber and integrity who would have to have knowledge of this conspiracy and would blow the whistle on such an alleged conspiracy if it existed. Just because a few players may have at one time or another received a bribe to throw a match or a game does not prove anything more than that and does not rise to the level of NFL-wide conspiracy.

Several of you here want to believe something that doesn't exist because the reality of things are that real life is complicated and messy and things don't always go the way you want them to or expect them to. It is so easy to blame the big, bad, boogey men for conspiring to manipulate events. So, excuses such as conspiracies are invented to rationalize what you believe to be the truth.

However, after several promptings, no one has offered a single iota of proof that the league is colluding to fix the outcomes of games. All I have seen is speculative opinions with no foundation.

 

[Scott B]

I am just saying be careful of conspiracy theories. I threw those two examples in for hyperbolic emphasis. However, in this case to satisfy the case for a conspiracy, there has to be proof of collusion. However, there are too many players and coaches of high moral fiber and integrity who would have to have knowledge of this conspiracy and would blow the whistle on such an alleged conspiracy if it existed. Just because a few players may have at one time or another received a bribe to throw a match or a game does not prove anything more than that and does not rise to the level of NFL-wide conspiracy.

Several of you here want to believe something that doesn't exist because the reality of things are that real life is complicated and messy and things don't always go the way you want them to or expect them to. It is so easy to blame the big, bad, boogey men for conspiring to manipulate events. So, excuses such as conspiracies are invented to rationalize what you believe to be the truth.

However, after several promptings, no one has offered a single iota of proof that the league is colluding to fix the outcomes of games. All I have seen is speculative opinions with no foundation.

I don't believe that any of the players and coaches are actively involved in fixing games, other than possible rogue exceptions. They could never keep that a secret. And you couldn't get 100% buy-in from so many players and coaches.

What I can see are officials affecting the outcome of games very easily. And they may not even have a "script". Each week, the officials get a "scouting report" along with videos to look at "tendencies" for the upcoming teams. This comes from the head of officiating. It's no secret that every official on Browner's side of the field had one hand on their flag the minute the ball was snapped last year. These refs get graded based on a list of criteria set by, the head of officiating. That determines whether they get playoff games, keep their position next season, or get fired. Officials can be easily influenced to make calls a certain way without being specifically told what to do.

If you have watched the Saints for any length of time, the laundry list of head-scratching, ill-timed, and laughable calls made against this franchise over decades has to give you some pause for consideration. Does anyone remember the first NFL game in NYC after 9/11? The officials were so one-sided for the Giants and against the Saints, Tagliabue had to go down to the field to tell the refs to chill out.

I hate that I've even allowed myself to believe the games are being "controlled", but the more I look around, the easier it is to see.

 

[RiverRat]

No doubt in my mind that games are tinkered with, but it isn't for intertainment sake, it's for the interest of gambling money.

If it were for intertainment, defenses would be allowed to play.

 

[SaintsJunkie]

they do, and I bet all have off shore accounts

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I am just saying be careful of conspiracy theories. I threw those two examples in for hyperbolic emphasis. However, in this case to satisfy the case for a conspiracy, there has to be proof of collusion. However, there are too many players and coaches of high moral fiber and integrity who would have to have knowledge of this conspiracy and would blow the whistle on such an alleged conspiracy if it existed. Just because a few players may have at one time or another received a bribe to throw a match or a game does not prove anything more than that and does not rise to the level of NFL-wide conspiracy.

Several of you here want to believe something that doesn't exist because the reality of things are that real life is complicated and messy and things don't always go the way you want them to or expect them to. It is so easy to blame the big, bad, boogey men for conspiring to manipulate events. So, excuses such as conspiracies are invented to rationalize what you believe to be the truth.

However, after several promptings, no one has offered a single iota of proof that the league is colluding to fix the outcomes of games. All I have seen is speculative opinions with no foundation.

Proof can't be provided either way. You can't prove that is doesn't exist. We're just not talking down to and insulting everyone because their opinion differs.

 

[Randy Jones]

Proof can't be provided either way. You can't prove that is doesn't exist. We're just not talking down to and insulting everyone because their opinion differs.

I wont let my gut rule my common sense. My common sense tells me that a conspiracy of this scope would be impossible to maintain in this day and age, year after year, without some inkling of it escaping into the public light of day. Somebody's conscience would eventually get the better of them, they would hold a press conference and reveal the conspiracy, and the media would eat it up.

For instance, as small as some of the scandals/conspiracies affecting teams like the Saints and Patriots have been, they eventually came to light and the media has gone nuts with them. Something bigger and more wide spread than those scandals could not have been contained all these years without leaking out.

 

[Surviving Saint]

I don't believe that any of the players and coaches are actively involved in fixing games, other than possible rogue exceptions. They could never keep that a secret. And you couldn't get 100% buy-in from so many players and coaches.

Not true. The officials could only determine the outcome in a very tight game at the last second. If I need a game fixed, I would need more than an official. To have a tight game you need players and coaches.

The over and under gambling wise, comes down to play calling. The coaches don't have a union. Just like officials they work for the NFL.


Every week the players tell you it's a business. Every week you hear they script the first 15 plays. So what's stopping them from scripting the whole game? .

Give a player 1 million dollars and he will throw a game. Money is green and they aren't in the NFL because they love football. They love money. Give me a coach, QB, and 1 defensive player from each team and will orchestrate a game that will make your head spin. It's not a conspiracy. Was wrestling a conspiracy? It's entertainment and nothing more. Name one thing on TV that isn't scripted.