NFL changing playoff format (1 Viewer)

BoNcHiE

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Your criticism is dumb. All those close games are a HUGE part of why we've only had ONE SEASON in our 53-year history where we've won more than one playoff game. Were you even aware of that stat? That's right. Aside from our Super Bowl year, we've gotten bounced the next week following every single playoff victory in team history. Our inability to seize momentum and step on our opponents' necks as well as flat out starting numerous games horribly have collectively cost us at least two rings (2011 and 2018).

Also, you're moving the goalposts. I'm not complaining because the games were close going into the fourth quarter. I'm complaining cuz they were close at almost the end of the game. If you give up a touchdown when there's still 13 minutes left in the fourth, you've probably got 2 or 3 more possessions left to do something about it. You give up a TD in a one-possession game with a minute left and you have a very good chance of losing unless you were up by 7 or 8.
Whatever. I just get sick of the whining and downplaying of what we've accomplished.

Yes, we haven't won multiple Super Bowls in the last 14 years. Neither has almost every other team in the league and most of them haven't won any. We have one of the best records in the NFL over that span, three NFCCG appearances, and a SB win.

I'd love to end Brees' run with another Super Bowl, but I'm also cognizant of how just lucky we are as a fan base since Payton got here. It's incredibly difficult to win in this league, much less win a Super Bowl multiple times.
 

black_floyd

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Whatever. I just get sick of the whining and downplaying of what we've accomplished.

Yes, we haven't won multiple Super Bowls in the last 14 years. Neither has almost every other team in the league and most of them haven't won any. We have one of the best records in the NFL over that span, three NFCCG appearances, and a SB win.

I'd love to end Brees' run with another Super Bowl, but I'm also cognizant of how just lucky we are as a fan base since Payton got here. It's incredibly difficult to win in this league, much less win a Super Bowl multiple times.
If you're satisfied, then I'm sincerely happy for you. I just see it like this. Since 2006 we have 8 playoff wins and 3 NFC CG appearances and 1 SB win. I personally don't consider that lucky by a long shot. The majority of people around here consider Brees the GOAT. The majority of people around here consider SP a top 3 coach in the league. The majority of the people around here would argue we've had a top 5 offensive skill position squad (RB/WR/TE) almost every year since 2006.

If those things are true, then 1 SB, 3 NFC CG appearances, and 8 playoff wins (of which 4 are wildcard round and only 1 since the SB has occurred past the wildcard round) in 13 seasons for SP and 14 seasons for Brees is pretty hard to describe as lucky or even on par with the expected outcome.
 

blackadder

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Whatever. I just get sick of the whining and downplaying of what we've accomplished.

Yes, we haven't won multiple Super Bowls in the last 14 years. Neither has almost every other team in the league and most of them haven't won any. We have one of the best records in the NFL over that span, three NFCCG appearances, and a SB win.

I'd love to end Brees' run with another Super Bowl, but I'm also cognizant of how just lucky we are as a fan base since Payton got here. It's incredibly difficult to win in this league, much less win a Super Bowl multiple times.
This is all true. Margins of victory are super thin. Almost every play and every decision counts.

Can’t afford to lay any eggs or have any of the lapses that have become something of a pattern when it matters most, and either associated with being unable to defend the pass or coming up with a silly offensive game plan.
 
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Saintaholic

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Whatever. I just get sick of the whining and downplaying of what we've accomplished.

Yes, we haven't won multiple Super Bowls in the last 14 years. Neither has almost every other team in the league and most of them haven't won any. We have one of the best records in the NFL over that span, three NFCCG appearances, and a SB win.

I'd love to end Brees' run with another Super Bowl, but I'm also cognizant of how just lucky we are as a fan base since Payton got here. It's incredibly difficult to win in this league, much less win a Super Bowl multiple times.
If you're satisfied, then I'm sincerely happy for you. I just see it like this. Since 2006 we have 8 playoff wins and 3 NFC CG appearances and 1 SB win. I personally don't consider that lucky by a long shot. The majority of people around here consider Brees the GOAT. The majority of people around here consider SP a top 3 coach in the league. The majority of the people around here would argue we've had a top 5 offensive skill position squad (RB/WR/TE) almost every year since 2006.

If those things are true, then 1 SB, 3 NFC CG appearances, and 8 playoff wins (of which 4 are wildcard round and only 1 since the SB has occurred past the wildcard round) in 13 seasons for SP and 14 seasons for Brees is pretty hard to describe as lucky or even on par with the expected outcome.
We're usually on the same page Bonchie, but I tend to agree with Black Floyd here.

We've had a remarkable run of success, no doubt, but the truth is, we really have failed Drew, though much of it is just sheer, unprecedented bad luck. There were just too many years where we fielded absolutely atrocious defenses, and too many devastating playoff losses. It has been a fun ride, and I think naturally as Saints fans we are thankful for it given the team's history, but we have not done enough in this era, given the play the team has gotten at quarterback and offense in general.

There really is no good reason why we don't have at least three Super Bowl titles, playing with arguably the greatest statistical quarterback of all-time, in today's game. We really should be the Patriots of the NFC, but we just failed on too many levels in the draft, player acquisitions, player departures, and on the field in key moments. When you really think about it, given the regular season success and quarterback play of the two teams for the past decade-plus, it is quite remarkable that we have never seen a Saints vs. Patriots Super Bowl. What has prevented it, you might ask?

2006 - Both the Saints and Patriots lose in their respective conference championship games
2009 - Saints reach the Super Bowl, but the Patriots play in a rare Wild Card round game and subsequently suffer an uncharacteristic home loss to the Ravens (a legit argument could be made that the Saints "broke" the Patriots that year though)
2011 - Vernon Davis catch doesn't happen, Saints reach NFC title game for a likely win over NYG (we'd have been favored), the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots.
2017 - Minnesota Miracle doesn't happen, Saints reach NFC title game for a likely win over PHI (we'd have been favored), the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots
2018 - Pass Interference No-Call doesn't happen in NFC title game versus the Rams, the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots

I mean the odds of the Saints and Patriots not meeting in a Super Bowl once in the past decade, given the quarterback play, coaching greatness, statistical data, and the positions the two teams have gotten themselves in each season - regular season positioning, postseason positioning, and key moment positioning in postseason games - the odds of these two teams never meeting in a Super Bowl have to be literally less than 5%...I mean, it has literally taken miracles for it to not happen.

There has been just a ton of sheer bad luck, along with far too many 7-9 seasons due to bad defenses sprinkled into this era, not to mention a 2012 season that was straight up stolen from us, with Drew, Sproles, Colston and Jimmy in their primes and the team still on fire coming off three straight playoff runs.

And lets also not forget the fact that there have only been three teams in NFL history to finish with a 13-3 record and have to play in the Wild Card round - and the Saints have two of the three: literally a 29-yard missed field goal in overtime versus Atlanta away from the #1 seed in 2010, and a late game fourth down defensive lapse versus San Francisco away from the #1 seed in 2019.

The Saints legitimately should have like 3 or 4 rings already, but at a minimal, definitely more than one. We have been absolutely incredibly snake-bitten, and I don’t know if it is fully recognized by everyone just what the Saints franchise has missed out on during this Drew Brees era, an era that is sadly near its very end.

The Saints sadly have always been a snake-bitten franchise; it is just manifesting itself in a very different way in this GOAT QB era.
 

BoNcHiE

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If you're satisfied, then I'm sincerely happy for you. I just see it like this. Since 2006 we have 8 playoff wins and 3 NFC CG appearances and 1 SB win. I personally don't consider that lucky by a long shot. The majority of people around here consider Brees the GOAT. The majority of people around here consider SP a top 3 coach in the league. The majority of the people around here would argue we've had a top 5 offensive skill position squad (RB/WR/TE) almost every year since 2006.

If those things are true, then 1 SB, 3 NFC CG appearances, and 8 playoff wins (of which 4 are wildcard round and only 1 since the SB has occurred past the wildcard round) in 13 seasons for SP and 14 seasons for Brees is pretty hard to describe as lucky or even on par with the expected outcome.
Whatever. Complain away.
 

Optimus Prime

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.....The proposed CBA would last for 10 years and would give the players approximately 48 percent of the league’s revenue under the salary cap system during a 16-game season and 48.5 percent after a switch to a 17-game season. The regular season would be extended from 16 to 17 games at some point in the early stages of the new CBA, probably between the 2021 and 2023 seasons.....


Is my math wrong on this?, or this not how it works?

48% for 16 games comes out to 3% per regular season game

48.5% for 17 games is 2.85% per game

Shouldn’t it be 51% of total revenue (staying at the same 3%?)
 

Saintaholic

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.....The proposed CBA would last for 10 years and would give the players approximately 48 percent of the league’s revenue under the salary cap system during a 16-game season and 48.5 percent after a switch to a 17-game season. The regular season would be extended from 16 to 17 games at some point in the early stages of the new CBA, probably between the 2021 and 2023 seasons.....


Is my math wrong on this?, or this not how it works?

48% for 16 games comes out to 3% per regular season game

48.5% for 17 games is 2.85% per game

Shouldn’t it be 51% of total revenue (staying at the same 3%?)
This is a big reason this proposal will be shot down by the Players Union, amongst other things. Ownership wants to cap the game 17 earnings at $250k, which is well under a lot of the big name players' salaries. They will have to come up significantly if they want game 17, and I don't think it's going to happen.
 

blackadder

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We're usually on the same page Bonchie, but I tend to agree with Black Floyd here.

We've had a remarkable run of success, no doubt, but the truth is, we really have failed Drew, though much of it is just sheer, unprecedented bad luck. There were just too many years where we fielded absolutely atrocious defenses, and too many devastating playoff losses. It has been a fun ride, and I think naturally as Saints fans we are thankful for it given the team's history, but we have not done enough in this era, given the play the team has gotten at quarterback and offense in general.

There really is no good reason why we don't have at least three Super Bowl titles, playing with arguably the greatest statistical quarterback of all-time, in today's game. We really should be the Patriots of the NFC, but we just failed on too many levels in the draft, player acquisitions, player departures, and on the field in key moments. When you really think about it, given the regular season success and quarterback play of the two teams for the past decade-plus, it is quite remarkable that we have never seen a Saints vs. Patriots Super Bowl. What has prevented it, you might ask?

2006 - Both the Saints and Patriots lose in their respective conference championship games
2009 - Saints reach the Super Bowl, but the Patriots play in a rare Wild Card round game and subsequently suffer an uncharacteristic home loss to the Ravens (a legit argument could be made that the Saints "broke" the Patriots that year though)
2011 - Vernon Davis catch doesn't happen, Saints reach NFC title game for a likely win over NYG (we'd have been favored), the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots.
2017 - Minnesota Miracle doesn't happen, Saints reach NFC title game for a likely win over PHI (we'd have been favored), the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots
2018 - Pass Interference No-Call doesn't happen in NFC title game versus the Rams, the Saints play in the Super Bowl versus the Patriots

I mean the odds of the Saints and Patriots not meeting in a Super Bowl once in the past decade, given the quarterback play, coaching greatness, statistical data, and the positions the two teams have gotten themselves in each season - regular season positioning, postseason positioning, and key moment positioning in postseason games - the odds of these two teams never meeting in a Super Bowl have to be literally less than 5%...I mean, it has literally taken miracles for it to not happen.

There has been just a ton of sheer bad luck, along with far too many 7-9 seasons due to bad defenses sprinkled into this era, not to mention a 2012 season that was straight up stolen from us, with Drew, Sproles, Colston and Jimmy in their primes and the team still on fire coming off three straight playoff runs.

And lets also not forget the fact that there have only been three teams in NFL history to finish with a 13-3 record and have to play in the Wild Card round - and the Saints have two of the three: literally a 29-yard missed field goal in overtime versus Atlanta away from the #1 seed in 2010, and a late game fourth down defensive lapse versus San Francisco away from the #1 seed in 2019.

The Saints legitimately should have like 3 or 4 rings already, but at a minimal, definitely more than one. We have been absolutely incredibly snake-bitten, and I don’t know if it is fully recognized by everyone just what the Saints franchise has missed out on during this Drew Brees era, an era that is sadly near its very end.

The Saints sadly have always been a snake-bitten franchise; it is just manifesting itself in a very different way in this GOAT QB era.
Dunno how snakebitten it is.

it boiled down to bad personnel and coaching decisions on the defensive side of the ball across the era.

Defense improved but through this era there persists some tendency to have breakdowns on 3rd and long or in big moments in a tight game.

Brees did his part, the other pieces were t there to complement.
 

Saint Kamara

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Same number of weeks played.

The #1 seed that much more coveted.

My biggest concern is how often a #1 seed will end up making it to the Super Bowl as they now would have a decided advantage over every other team in their conference, as opposed to a much smaller advantage over the 2 seed as it stands now.
Screenshot_2020-02-21-14-39-38.png


So that graphic supports my concern.

Nearly 80% of teams having received a bye since 1990 have made it to the Superbowl.

I contend that the number 1 seed under this new format will make it to the Super Bowl roughly 75% of the time. That is too distinct an advantage. Bad for the NFL.

So roughly every 4 years you'll have someone other than the 1 seed from each perspective conference reach the Super Bowl.

Is that what you want to see?
 
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blackadder

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Screenshot_2020-02-21-14-39-38.png


So that graphic supports my concern.

Nearly 80% of teams having received a bye since 1990 have made it to the Superbowl.

I contend that the number 1 seed under this new format will make it to the Super Bowl roughly 75% of the time. That is too distinct an advantage. Bad for the NFL.

So roughly every 4 years you'll have someone other than the 1 seed from each perspective conference reach the Super Bowl.

Is that what you want to see?
There’s a lot from the NFL I do t want to see but get anyway.

As long as the revenue keeps increasing trey will tinkering because there is no downside except for the long time fan.
 

Optimus Prime

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Screenshot_2020-02-21-14-39-38.png


So that graphic supports my concern.

Nearly 80% of teams having received a bye since 1990 have made it to the Superbowl.

I contend that the number 1 seed under this new format will make it to the Super Bowl roughly 75% of the time. That is too distinct an advantage. Bad for the NFL.

So roughly every 4 years you'll have someone other than the 1 seed from each perspective conference reach the Super Bowl.

Is that what you want to see?
Is it 80% of teams with a bye go to the super bowl?

Or 80% of the time one the best two teams in the conference is in the super Bowl?

If they took away byes completely I’d still expect to see the top seeds to win most of the time
 

Saint Kamara

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Is it 80% of teams with a bye go to the super bowl?

Or 80% of the time one the best two teams in the conference is in the super Bowl?

If they took away byes completely I’d still expect to see the top seeds to win most of the time
The teams with the bye are by definition the two best teams in the conference, so I'm not sure what you're asking.

Up until now if you got one of the byes you made the Super Bowl nearly 80% of the time.

I contend now that since the number 2 seed has to play an extra game, the 1 seed will make the Super Bowl a great majority of the time and that's not good for football.
 

Saintaholic

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Screenshot_2020-02-21-14-39-38.png


So that graphic supports my concern.

Nearly 80% of teams having received a bye since 1990 have made it to the Superbowl.

I contend that the number 1 seed under this new format will make it to the Super Bowl roughly 75% of the time. That is too distinct an advantage. Bad for the NFL.

So roughly every 4 years you'll have someone other than the 1 seed from each perspective conference reach the Super Bowl.

Is that what you want to see?
Is this a bad thing though? I have come around to liking this aspect of the change. The de facto regular season champion gets the big advantage.

As I indicated earlier in the thread, the general principle of a playoff is to give the best team the easiest path to the championship as possible. I think the team that earns the #1 seed deserves this major advantage over the rest of the field. It’s a quirk that kind of makes sense when you really think about it.
 

Optimus Prime

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The teams with the bye are by definition the two best teams in the conference, so I'm not sure what you're asking.

Up until now if you got one of the byes you made the Super Bowl nearly 80% of the time.

I contend now that since the number 2 seed has to play an extra game, the 1 seed will make the Super Bowl a great majority of the time and that's not good for football.
I guess I’m asking it the team’s talent or week off that is the determining factor?

If hypothetically for some reason the fifth and sixth seeds got the bye week would you still expect that 80% number to hold up?

I don’t, in that scenario I still think that the 1st and 2nd dominate because they are the better teams
 

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