NFL to play 'Lift Every Voice and Sing' before National Anthem in Week 1 (1 Viewer)

Essentially it’s what Oye was talking about in terms of ‘step 1’
If it’s step 1 of 10 steps all with well- articulated goals, then cool
- but too often it’s a (mostly well meaning) substitute for substantive change

Writing bib “BLACK LIVES MATTER “ on the street is kinda cool - but if the next steps are a pancake breakfast and a ride along program it’s a fairly hollow gesture

Yeah, in other words, is a movement without follow through really a movement? Right?

Thanks for explaining a bit.
 
Thank you. It really is. Imagine the fake butt-hurt when they find out there is a separate flag too.

And everyone assumes this is the NFL's doing but how do we know this wasn't a player idea?

And why do we come to this 'can't walk and chew gum" nonsense again'? How does this absolve the NFL from talking more substantive action?

Sure it's yet another symbolic gesture most of us are tired of, but who said this is the be all and end all? Since no one has bothered, here is the history behind it.



This is sort of why I wish i were a fly on the wall when the decision was made. I mean people are assuming it was Goodell, and if it was, then that's one thing. But, I wonder if one of the other executives was approached with the idea. I mean, I can't imagine Goodell had even heard of the song until now.

Really curious who's driving the process.
 
Kind of sounds like he's tired of the fake hustle from wannabes who are saying what they think people want to hear, and prefers to see tangible action ;). If only that had been mentioned on this forum in the last day or so...
Theatre has a guiding principle that I wish more of the world held to
“Yes, and” in am improvisation, if someone offers an idea, the partner must ‘yes, and’
Meaning the most accept the premise and, if they feel there are better ways to attack the scene then creatively find that direction within the premise offered

There are few things more boring than watching one person offer an idea and the other partner continually shut them down as ‘stupid’ or ‘unworkable’

So yes, you have mentioned that you think this is an empty gesture
Light a candle for us. How would you move us forward on a more inclusive path (to tie to Oye’s language)?
 
White-based affirmative action was instituted before the US was even the US. 400 years ago with land grants and property ownership. That practice lasted a very, very long time.

Even when slaves were given their 40 acres and a mule, most of that land was taken from them and given back to whites.

And even what I mentioned earlier in the thread, the building of interstates and the design of many, many cities in the US - all over, coast to coast - were made to protect white people and represent yet another version of 'white-based affirmative action' that was practiced until early to middle of last century.

So you're talking a system that was codifed, through law and urban planning, that was 350 years old.

And now, when the scales of acknolwedgement get tipped in the other direction, just a bit - people freak out.

There are a lot of people who will say "But I never owned slaves!" who also don't realize that they and/or people close to them probably benefited from the practiced institution of 'white-based affirmative action' in ways they don't realize or fully appreciate

This book ought to be required reading in high school. Many many many people are just ignorant of the extreme steps taken by the US government to make things as they are today. Specifically with Africans Americans as the target.

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Why on earth would this bother anyone? When American and Canadian teams play each other they play both anthems.
For me personally as a black American I don't want special treatment like this. Do we need to have an Anthem for every race that's in America? One Anthem shows we're United under one flag one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This "woke" attempt is a weak attempt to have people buy into a cause that is polluted with politics. This is causing more division than it is helping at all.
 
I get that we are protesting the overreach of police in this country and everything but why in the heck is the NFL getting involved in politics?

Do they realize that this is not a friendly gesture to black individuals but a divisive one? The Star Spangled Banner is already the NATIONAL ANTHEM for all Americans. Last time I checked, black Americans are AMERICANS.

By doing this, it totally justifies the question: What about an asian national anthem, or a native american rain dance (for the redskins), or even.... a white national anthem. Imagine that.

Do we really want to sow actual segregation in this country? Am I losing my mind or is this country actually becoming MORE segregated?!
Spot on. Bad principles produce bad results. The results are in. We're more divided since the kneeling issue. Throw in the divisive BLM Inc. movement and it's evident that accusing large swaths of people of being this or that is unwise and detrimental.
 
Spot on. Bad principles produce bad results. The results are in. We're more divided since the kneeling issue. Throw in the divisive BLM Inc. movement and it's evident that accusing large swaths of people of being this or that is unwise and detrimental.

There were many African Americans during the 1960s that called MLK a trouble maker. Said he was only dividing the country further and stoking more racial tension. Said the best way was quietly through the court system.

Which would have achieved civil rights on its own right about now? Maybe?

Very wise those people were.
 
Theatre has a guiding principle that I wish more of the world held to
“Yes, and” in am improvisation, if someone offers an idea, the partner must ‘yes, and’
Meaning the most accept the premise and, if they feel there are better ways to attack the scene then creatively find that direction within the premise offered

There are few things more boring than watching one person offer an idea and the other partner continually shut them down as ‘stupid’ or ‘unworkable’

So yes, you have mentioned that you think this is an empty gesture
Light a candle for us. How would you move us forward on a more inclusive path (to tie to Oye’s language)?


That's really a stupid idea and unworkable. :hihi:
 
“Lift Every Voice and Sing” and “The Star Spangled Banner” are both snoozefests. If they wanna play a song before games to get me feeling patriotic and fired up for football, they should go with James Brown’s Living in America. But I don’t get a vote in this anthem thing so, yeah, whatever.
 
“Lift Every Voice and Sing” and “The Star Spangled Banner” are both snoozefests. If they wanna play a song before games to get me feeling patriotic and fired up for football, they should go with James Brown’s Living in America. But I don’t get a vote in this anthem thing so, yeah, whatever.
One nation under a groove
You’re welcome
 
Theatre has a guiding principle that I wish more of the world held to
“Yes, and” in am improvisation, if someone offers an idea, the partner must ‘yes, and’
Meaning the most accept the premise and, if they feel there are better ways to attack the scene then creatively find that direction within the premise offered

There are few things more boring than watching one person offer an idea and the other partner continually shut them down as ‘stupid’ or ‘unworkable’

So yes, you have mentioned that you think this is an empty gesture
Light a candle for us. How would you move us forward on a more inclusive path (to tie to Oye’s language)?

My vision is more along the lines of what can we do with our current starting point, and where can we go.

1. If a person is so supportive of the African American plight, be more visible in their community. I alluded to this in an earlier post if you wish to re-visit that.

2. Do not view those individuals as a cause......but rather...as a purpose with a name. I get that not everyone believes in a Higher Power, but many of us believe we're here for a reason (and I rarely come across an African American who identifies as an atheist). Work with them on figuring out what their ultimate life purpose is, since they may not be totally clear on that. What's that saying about if you don't have a direction, any road will get you there?

3. Focus the battle on legitimate, and often times hidden cases of, racism. I'm don't see what "Because A happened, we need to X, Y or Z" does to truly resolve anything. Do we really think George Floyd's family is feeling any better over changes with Aunt Jemima, Dixie Beer, or Elmer Fudd, or whatever other silliness that has popped up?

4. Don't be afraid to challenge/question the potential efficacy of something. A person who just jumps on every bandwagon because it makes them look intolerant or racist if they don't, is not ultimately doing anyone any favors. "DEFUND THE POLICE!!!!"....."not a good idea"......"OH SO YOU SUPPORT THE CALLOUS MURDER OF AFRICAN AMERICANS???" That kind of crap...

5. Authenticity. You mentioned you have an African American wife. I don't know, and will likely never meet, your wife......but if she's anything like most African Americans I've been around.........they prefer people who are direct and upfront............because they, themselves, tend to be direct and upfront. They can typically spot a wannabe from a mile away, they just may not always call it out. So if a person genuinely wants to assist them in elevating their present circumstances, I would strongly consider that they do it for the right reasons.....and not because they think someone else will be impressed by it.

6. Here's an easy one......but goes back to the other post I made when I referenced meaningful dialogue: actually just hang out with them. Not under the guise of a "book club", or something where it seems more about appeasing white guilt and/or looking tolerant than actually coming to any type of major understanding. Have a beer with them (or whatever your non-alcoholic choice of drink may be). Grill some burgers with them. Talk some football. Talk about life. Just that genuine interaction can have a great deal of impact. Imagine if something like that could slowly begin to spread instead of resentment...
 
Just because they found some people who said that does not mean that the majority, or even a significant number, believe that. And, it ignores the fact that as Justice Warren so eloquently put it, separate but equal is inherently unequal.

Also, I suspect the point those people were trying to make is that had it actually been equal facilities and schools, they might have been okay with that, but it wasn't actually equal.
Thanks for the mansplain. I'll just let the gentleman speak for himself.

 

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