Numerous charges, pleas, and convictions resulting from Mueller investigation (amended) (5 Viewers)

DavidM

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Washington (CNN)A federal grand jury in Washington, DC, on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.

The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/27/politics/first-charges-mueller-investigation/index.html
 

N.O.Bronco

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At worst for Trump, he told Vohen to lie to Congress, open and shut obstruction case.

At best for Trump, even if he did not instruct Cohen to lie, he did nothing to correct the lie. Maybe not open and shut, but still feels like obstruction to me.

Trump is such a serial liar, it’s 100% he instructed Cohen to me. I just hope Cohen has some corroborating evidence, he can easily be proven not credible by just about any public defender. A tape would do it.
So let me preface by saying I have notable skepticism of Jason Leopold as a reporter, so I have hesitated to say much about this rather incredibly damning piece.

That said, I think what is most notable, and most incredible, assuming again this story can be corroborated or pans out as reported, is the inference that Mueller essentially has Trump dead to rights on suborning perjury already. By way of organizational documents, emails, text messages, witness testimony and beyond, and that Cohen's cooperation merely helped further confirm it and round out details.
 

N.O.Bronco

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Care to share a little about this skepticism of the reporter?
To be fair he has done some great work as well(including on this matter). But as for the bad stuff...

He got caught up in some minor plagiarism issues and some shoddy journalism involving reporting he did on the Enron scandal. Salon had to remove the article after he failed to credit quotes to the Financial Times and at least one of his sources contested what he wrote, also the NYTimes came to find out he sort of misrepresented some email sources enough that they saw it is a major problem that called into question aspects of the piece.

He also got in trouble for some bad sourcing in a report he did for Truthout where he claimed that Karl Rove was going to imminently be indicted....Which obviously never happened.


All that said he is still pretty accomplished from what I understand, won several awards and had some pretty impressive resume stuffers before and since. I'm just being cautious is all.
 

saintmdterps

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At worst for Trump, he told Vohen to lie to Congress, open and shut obstruction case.

At best for Trump, even if he did not instruct Cohen to lie, he did nothing to correct the lie. Maybe not open and shut, but still feels like obstruction to me.

Trump is such a serial liar, it’s 100% he instructed Cohen to me. I just hope Cohen has some corroborating evidence, he can easily be proven not credible by just about any public defender. A tape would do it.
God that’s a whole new tactic in the legal world—retain a hopelessly incompetent liar of an attorney so that when he rolls over on your fat ***, you can say he’s a hopelessly incompetent liar and can’t be believed. It will play well with the base, most of whom won’t understand the irony/paradox. Wow.
 

buzd

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Special counsel comments:


They refer to very specific "inaccuracies", which makes me think the gist of the article is probably true.
 

Dragon

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And he keeps opening up cans of worms ...

Donald Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani addresses whether the President talked to Michael Cohen about his congressional testimony.
 

FullMonte

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They don’t make comments very often.
True...So, there is something to take away from this. There was a report that Cohen claimed that Trump directed him to lie to Congress, and Mueller's office released a well crafted statement that specific claims made were inaccurate.

However, over the course of the investigation, there have been numerous reports of evidence that Mueller had or things that were being investigated...and Mueller's office never bothered to issue a statement about those reports.

So either, those reports were true, or there is something in particular about this case that Mueller's office felt was worthy of a reply.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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So either, those reports were true, or there is something in particular about this case that Mueller's office felt was worthy of a reply.
Yea there is a reason they felt an obligation to respond to this report. Mueller knows that if they start refuting false stories then it implicitly verifies every story they don’t refute.

There was a reason they responded to this one, and there was a reason it was worded so precisely.
 

Charlie Brizzown

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Yea there is a reason they felt an obligation to respond to this report. Mueller knows that if they start refuting false stories then it implicitly verifies every story they don’t refute.

There was a reason they responded to this one, and there was a reason it was worded so precisely.
I heard a theory that suggested Mueller may have responded in this case because the House was getting ready to investigate, but that may have thrown a monkey wrench into Mueller’s chess moves.

It’s anyone’s guess at this point.
 

Maxp

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The Atlantic wrote an article yesterday making the case for impeachment of Trump. Pretty long read that compares the Andrew Johnson presidency and our current president's. Before reading I was in the camp of waiting out the first term or at least until Mueller's investigation was completed. However, I'm convinced. Impeach Trump now, shine the public eye on it all. Impeachment is the political mechanism we have in place to peacefully remove an executive who has failed his or her oath of office.

Hosting that debate in Congress yields a fourth benefit: defusing the potential for an explosion of political violence. This is a rationale for impeachment first offered at the Constitutional Convention, in 1787. “What was the practice before this in cases where the chief Magistrate rendered himself obnoxious?” Benjamin Franklin asked his fellow delegates. “Why, recourse was had to assassination in wch. he was not only deprived of his life but of the opportunity of vindicating his character.” A system without a mechanism for removing the chief executive, he argued, offered an invitation to violence. Just as the courts took the impulse toward vigilante justice and safely channeled it into the protections of the legal system, impeachment took the impulse toward political violence and safely channeled it into Congress.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
 
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mt15

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I haven’t got time right now to read an Atlantic article, lol, but I have come around in my own thinking as well. This ugliness needs some sunlight to bleach out the crud.
 

Taurus

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The Atlantic wrote an article yesterday making the case for impeachment of Trump. Pretty long read that compares the Andrew Johnson presidency and our current president's. Before reading I was in the camp of waiting out the first term or at least until Mueller's investigation was completed. However, I'm convinced. Impeach Trump now, shine the public eye on it all. Impeachment is the political mechanism we have in place to peacefully remove an executive who has failed his or her oath of office.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
I read the same article.

He mentions that it's not about removing Cheato. Whether or not impeachment provides a conviction is almost beside the point. The point is to bring all the various investigations together in an open and transparent format. It gives a process to follow, with rules. The Russia investigation gets included with money laundering, emoluments, campaign finance, the whole ecosystem of crime surrounding Cheato and his Administration. It's collated together, rounded up and each trail followed step-by-step in front of the whole nation. We need that. We don't need some backroom deal where Trump slinks off into the shadows for reasons *REDACTED*. We as a country need to *know*.

It can also force a wayward personality like Trump to behave himself or risk some admission or mistake that will put him on the street. Followed shortly by a prison stay.
 

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