Nurse & Doctor 'In Training' Pic Causes Stir (1 Viewer)

[FL_Saint]

People that are looking to be offended will have no problem finding something to be offended about.

 

[FLEA]

 

[superchuck500]

Judging it purely by itself, yes, absolutely.

But that's what's frustrating about these things. People see something that, by itself, isn't objectionable, but taken in context with other things collectively can be. Then some people treat the individual thing as if it's somehow individually embodying that systematic bias and attack it (which isn't quite right) and some people treat the individual thing as if it somehow exists purely by itself isolated from everything else (which also isn't quite right), they all shout at each other, and no-one gets anywhere.

That is, there's nothing wrong with depictions of girls as nurses and boys as doctors (or girls as princesses and boys as astronauts, or girls as dancers and boys as truck drivers, etc., etc., etc.) taken by themselves. But if that's disproportionately what the depictions are, then, while there's still nothing wrong with an individual depiction, there is collectively a problem.

So I do think there's an overreaction here attacking this individual picture. There's nothing wrong with it by itself.


That's great. But not everyone has those personal views; for a lot of people the impression they get of what's available to them, or most acceptable for them to be, is what's depicted generally. And there's still some merit to pointing out problems with the depictions in general (a bit bafflingly given that it's 2019). Not so much on the doctors' side of things at least (in the UK, there's a slight bias towards men, significantly so at the senior level, but progressively less so, and there's plenty of portrayals of female doctors out there), but on the nurse side of things there's a huge bias towards women (it's still around 90% female as a profession) and the portrayal of girls and not boys as nurses even more so. And speaking as someone with a two year old, generally children's clothes are still reinforcing outdated stereotypes.

But it is getting better, and will continue to do so. I just wish people (in general) could distinguish between criticising an individual depiction of something and criticising how something is generally portrayed. I think that gets better by adding more depictions of what's lacking, not by attacking depictions that are fine in and of themselves.

Yeah, that's all fair. But doesn't it also disrespect current female nurses to say that this depiction is somehow inappropriate? Nursing is a difficult, demanding profession and nurses earn it every day - they deserve the utmost respect. Doesn't that same reaction to this photo suggest that it is somehow demeaning or misogynistic to depict a young girl as a 'future nurse'? As if to say "Well these days they don't have to be a lowly nurse, they can be a doctor." To say this depiction is a slight on women, itself, seems to me to be a slight on women nurses . . . as if nurses are somehow the product of women just having to settle for nursing rather than being a doctor.

 

[RazorOye]

To say this depiction is a slight on women, itself, seems to me to be a slight on women nurses . . . as if nurses are somehow the product of women just having to settle for nursing rather than being a doctor.

I showed my mother in law - a pediatric nurse - this picture a couple of days ago when she was here, and all she did was repeat something she's said over the years, some variation of doctors think they run the nurses, but nurses know they run the hospital.

She always took a lot of pride in being a nurse and never shied away from giving it to a doctor when she had the chance, even those she was related to. I think, if anything, it is more a 'slight' on nurses, generally, if people want to go down this particular path of aggrievement

 

[You]

People just looking for reasons to be offended.

Been happening for centuries.

The internet and social media just enhance the experience

 

[0rion]

Yeah, that's all fair. But doesn't it also disrespect current female nurses to say that this depiction is somehow inappropriate? Nursing is a difficult, demanding profession and nurses earn it every day - they deserve the utmost respect. Doesn't that same reaction to this photo suggest that it is somehow demeaning or misogynistic to depict a young girl as a 'future nurse'? As if to say "Well these days they don't have to be a lowly nurse, they can be a doctor." To say this depiction is a slight on women, itself, seems to me to be a slight on women nurses . . . as if nurses are somehow the product of women just having to settle for nursing rather than being a doctor.

Not at all...my wife is a nurse. She's very proud to be a nurse and was about that little girls age when she knew that's what she wanted to be. Doctors treat people.....nurses care for people.

 

[Arathrael]

Yeah, that's all fair. But doesn't it also disrespect current female nurses to say that this depiction is somehow inappropriate? Nursing is a difficult, demanding profession and nurses earn it every day - they deserve the utmost respect. Doesn't that same reaction to this photo suggest that it is somehow demeaning or misogynistic to depict a young girl as a 'future nurse'? As if to say "Well these days they don't have to be a lowly nurse, they can be a doctor." To say this depiction is a slight on women, itself, seems to me to be a slight on women nurses . . . as if nurses are somehow the product of women just having to settle for nursing rather than being a doctor.

Interesting. When I was typing that I was actually thinking of it the other way around (probably because my two year old is a boy); that is, that the predominant depiction of nurses as girls, and not boys, is telling boys that they shouldn't be nurses, which I think is potentially detrimental to boys who may have otherwise wanted to be nurses.

I think how you view criticism of depictions like this depends very much on how it's framed, which is what I'm trying to get at here really. If you frame it as, "girls don't have to be nurses, they can be doctors", then yes, you could see it as a slight on nursing. If you frame it as, "boys can be nurses," then not so much. And if you frame it more generally as, "girls are still more likely to be depicted in typically subordinate or lower paid roles than boys are," then you're getting into a the whole question of whether that's a slight on the roles being perceived as subordinate or lower paid, or a reflection of a society that actually pays those roles less.

 

[Optimus Prime]

People that are looking to be offended will have no problem finding something to be offended about.

 

[superchuck500]

Not at all...my wife is a nurse. She's very proud to be a nurse and was about that little girls age when she knew that's what she wanted to be. Doctors treat people.....nurses care for people.

I think all nurses are proud - that's my point. To say that we shouldn't depict a little girl as a future nurse seems to disrespect nursing in some way. I don't think any actual nurse would have a problem with it.

 

[superchuck500]

Interesting. When I was typing that I was actually thinking of it the other way around (probably because my two year old is a boy); that is, that the predominant depiction of nurses as girls, and not boys, is telling boys that they shouldn't be nurses, which I think is potentially detrimental to boys who may have otherwise wanted to be nurses.

I think how you view criticism of depictions like this depends very much on how it's framed, which is what I'm trying to get at here really. If you frame it as, "girls don't have to be nurses, they can be doctors", then yes, you could see it as a slight on nursing. If you frame it as, "boys can be nurses," then not so much. And if you frame it more generally as, "girls are still more likely to be depicted in typically subordinate or lower paid roles than boys are," then you're getting into a the whole question of whether that's a slight on the roles being perceived as subordinate or lower paid, or a reflection of a society that actually pays those roles less.

Agreed. Which is why the whole thing is silly. It's a cute picture - there's no objective value in reading into any further.

 

[Madmarsha]

Who says that little boy isn't growing up to be a serial killer? I mean, come on, even in the "good old days", most little boys didn't grow up to be doctors.

 

[livefromDC]

People just looking for reasons to be offended.

Been happening for centuries.

The internet and social media just enhance the experience

But it's not people looking to be offended. Really, it's the internet is filled with people who all are offended by various things. So it's not the same people being offended each time which leads to the idea there's a group out there looking for offensive things on the internet. Do the people offended by this have any more or less merit than the people offended by kneeling during the anthem or the name Redskins? The internet gives all these groups a voice. And what offends any of them is no less important than what offends you. And based off of the rants you have had here, you do get offended too.

 

[RazorOye]

And based off of the rants you have had here, you do get offended too.

getting offended by people who get offended

the snake eats its tail, sometimes

 

[livefromDC]

As a microbiology prof, I get to teach a lot of nursing students. A ton of them. And women are the easy majority. Each semester most of my students are hoping to go into nursing. When I ask people, why nursing I usually get one of 3 responses:

1. I want to help people.
2. It's a steady career, I can make good money, it seems like something I can do.
3. A personal experience has led them to it (loss someone close, family member was a nurse, etc.)

And on occasion, I'll ask why not become a doctor:

1. Too much school
2. I want to have a family too
3. Because I want to be a nurse

There's definitely a historical gender norm there, but it's fading. None of my female students ever say that they didn't think women could strive to be doctors. But because of the historical norm, I can understand why the picture could be offensive to some. We shouldn't pretend like it's not there, particularly if someone can feel it.

Additionally, I can say that my medical school class was basically 50/50. So it's worth noting that this norm is no longer a norm...at least in my personal experience at an East coast medical school for whatever that's worth. However, I'm not bold enough to say what should or could be offensive to someone with a totally different experience set from me.

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

Some people cannot be happy unless they are unhappy about something.