O line expectations vs reality (1 Viewer)

[Krodwhodat]

WWL said it best last night. We are spoiled at O line play. Evans and Nicks are arguably the best guard duo in the history of the NFL and a situation you get once in a lifetime. Our expectations can't be those 2 guys. Most NFL teams have one or two great O lineman and the rest are serviceable. You can't afford to pay 5 O lineman the money you are paying Unger and Armstead plus have a hall of fame QB, 2 number 1 receivers and a top TE and 2 high paid RBs. It's impossible so you build an offense around what you have and when the regular season comes you adjust scheme to protect against your weakness.
In today's salary cap age we can't have an all pro at every position. You can't have 11 all pros on O and neglect your D. We've been there before! We are putting puzzle pieces in place to be consistent on both sides and to do that you will have serviceable players at some positions. Now it's up to the coaching staff to put those players in a place to succeed.


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[Krodwhodat]

Just watched the first O drive and the O line had great pass protection and run wasn't bad. Lelito picked up a double team instead of hitting the LB. and if Coleman doesn't drop that pass it's 1st and 10 at the Houston 15.


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[SaintTiger]

Your logic is staggering brother.....there is some credence to our high expectations....but realize this, almost every other team in the NFL doesn't have an Evans and Nicks, but they do have professional Offensive Linemen that can block and protect their qb. At this point it looks like we have one of the worst lines in the NFL. This isn't a rant, this is factual through last year and the first two preseason games this year.....as proof I offer our simply inability to run the football. If anyone watched the first two games it's obvious that they can't even give the rb a gap to squeeze through muchless a whole (a wide gap) to run through, nor pass protect. They only changes we'll see is Drew finding ways to get rid of the ball in about 2.0 seconds.....so thank you Jesus that we've got Drew.....because any average qb would make this team 4-12 at best.

 

[Krodwhodat]

Look at the stats last year? How is it one of the worse O lines in the league. What's staggering is the amount of people on here who are smart football fans that know better than to read into preseason to deep that run around screaming the sky if falling after they laugh at people in the thread about this very same thing the day before the first preseason game. We were ranked a top 10 O line last year and Ingram averaged 4.6 yards a carry. We just played catch up last year.


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[football]

WWL said it best last night. We are spoiled at O line play. Evans and Nicks are arguably the best guard duo in the history of the NFL and a situation you get once in a lifetime. Our expectations can't be those 2 guys. Most NFL teams have one or two great O lineman and the rest are serviceable. You can't afford to pay 5 O lineman the money you are paying Unger and Armstead plus have a hall of fame QB, 2 number 1 receivers and a top TE and 2 high paid RBs. It's impossible so you build an offense around what you have and when the regular season comes you adjust scheme to protect against your weakness.
In today's salary cap age we can't have an all pro at every position. You can't have 11 all pros on O and neglect your D. We've been there before! We are putting puzzle pieces in place to be consistent on both sides and to do that you will have serviceable players at some positions. Now it's up to the coaching staff to put those players in a place to succeed.


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I can't red thumb this nor can I green thumb it either. Your post make sense and I do agree. But I also agree with SaintTiger more so. Talking from my perspective, I know we won't have that type of offensive line that we once had in 2011. Not expecting any of them to even make the pro bowl either. What I am expecting is a serviceable offensive line who will not allow our quarterback to get killed on almost every single play. If you look at one of those hit Drew Brees took last night. One of it was a penalty. That play itself, there was two guys that came and hit him so hard. I can see Drew feeling pain when he got up. The rest of the plays were Drew trying to run for his life. There was no running lane. Nothing was established. And this continue on when McCown came in. Right now, I am settling for serviceable guys on that line who can be decent.

If you want to go by last year and the previous years, then why are getting worse with basically the same players?

 

[MSUSousaphone]

Lol. I KNEW someone would try to use metrics to excuse it.

This would be like over the past few years saying "we're spoiled to the Dome Patrol".

It's JUST preseason. So it hasn't really caused any losses, yet. But most people predicted that it would be the downfall of the team, these past two games sure make it seem like it will be......

Again, preseason. But it looks like it will be what breaks us so it's not just being spoiled.

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[Krodwhodat]

I can't red thumb this nor can I green thumb it either. Your post make sense and I do agree. But I also agree with SaintTiger more so. Talking from my perspective, I know we won't have that type of offensive line that we once had in 2011. Not expecting any of them to even make the pro bowl either. What I am expecting is a serviceable offensive line who will not allow our quarterback to get killed on almost every single play. If you look at one of those hit Drew Brees took last night. One of it was a penalty. That play itself, there was two guys that came and hit him so hard. I can see Drew feeling pain when he got up. The rest of the plays were Drew trying to run for his life. There was no running lane. Nothing was established. And this continue on when McCown came in. Right now, I am settling for serviceable guys on that line who can be decent.



If you want to go by last year and the previous years, then why are getting worse with basically the same players?

I'm not sure how after 2 preseason games, the first without Armstead playing and Brees in for a series and the second where our 2 starting WR were out Brees got a late hit flag and stood in the pocket, threw a beautiful ball that hit Coleman at the 15 and he dropped we can determine we are worse than last year. Go back and watch the first drive. If that's Thomas or cooks the ball is caught. We score 7 there and this is an entirely different board this morning. Armstead came out early again. There was zero game planning. You guys know good and well we should be having this debate after the first game not after the second preseason game.
We are going to be fine. Stop the madness.


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[baarbogast]

you also have to consider JJ Watt didn't play. Its not like Houston was putting the best player in the league on the field.

I'm hoping it is just the line getting used to playing/knowing where each other will be on any given play. I'm not a cork-eyed optimist nor a debbie downer, just trying to be realistic. I don't know how good the Oakland D-line is, but right now I'm using a fullback to help solidify the middle.

 

[blackadder]

Look at the stats last year? How is it one of the worse O lines in the league. What's staggering is the amount of people on here who are smart football fans that know better than to read into preseason to deep that run around screaming the sky if falling after they laugh at people in the thread about this very same thing the day before the first preseason game. We were ranked a top 10 O line last year and Ingram averaged 4.6 yards a carry. We just played catch up last year.


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Come on.

This preseason game has context. Other than than the brief Nicks and Evans period this has never been a good running team. Things are such that we might have a 3rd and 1 and the coach feels to the need to call TE reverse rather than bear down and rely on his line to get the yard. We habitually under perform with the basic physical part of football up front.

In that context I don't care if it's preseason. Last year the OL regressed and nothing meaningful has changed other than to throw Peat who is being juggled and a declining Strief that is one year older.

Preseason or not, when you are racking up 2.6 or 1.8 YPC it's causse for concern 'vanilla' or no. Great running teams average closer to 5 YPC. Good running teams somewhat more than 4. In the 3's you are mediocre to bad. I think historically we usually tend to be a bit under 4 YPC.

But 1.8 ypc? Come on. Given the context and the experiments with Peat, the aging of Strief and a new unproven coach in a historically underperforming run scheme this is clearly cause for major concern.

 

[sharp square]

Saying "it's only preseason" doesn't cover up the fact that too many parts of the O-line played poorly. With Drew now not 25 anymore we need to be way above average in pass protection this season I think to keep him healthy all year and we HAVE to be able to run effectively.

Now at the same time let's not jump to any major conclusions just yet I mean we still have a couple weeks to get things together and most teams in preseason are a work in progress.

 

[CRESS_137]

Everyone knew this O Line was an issue, but do they draft any lineman? Nope, receiver and running back. Michael Thomas looks like he is gonna be great, and Lasco I shows promise...

It's gonna be tough for those guys to find any space if we can't block a soul.

If we really wanted to bring someone good in to play guard, it could have been achieved. We chose to go other routes.

So be it. If this is the way the O Line is going to play the rest of the year, it will be a 6-10 season. I hate it, but that's the reality.

The Texans kicked our butts up front all night long

 

[football]

I'm not sure how after 2 preseason games, the first without Armstead playing and Brees in for a series and the second where our 2 starting WR were out Brees got a late hit flag and stood in the pocket, threw a beautiful ball that hit Coleman at the 15 and he dropped we can determine we are worse than last year. Go back and watch the first drive. If that's Thomas or cooks the ball is caught. We score 7 there and this is an entirely different board this morning. Armstead came out early again. There was zero game planning. You guys know good and well we should be having this debate after the first game not after the second preseason game.
We are going to be fine. Stop the madness.


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Regardless if we score on that play or not, the fact is the problem continue throughout the game. Of course we can all state if this play or that play would happened, we would be singing a different tune. But it didn't. If Murphy didn't fumble, we wouldn't be down 7 points. The point being it didn't happened. What is happening, and not just these two preseason, but in training camp also is the fact that our offensive line has struggled badly. I can accept mistakes here and there on occasion. But if this is happening on every single play, then this team has serious issue on that line

 

[klewis33]

OP, please stop bring actual logic to this board. People aren't ready for that yet. As I said in another thread, every Oline I've watched has looked bad so far. Something that anyone who played football understands it takes Oline awhile to clean up, moreso than other positions. Yeah, I know I'm being "that guy" about the football remark. But geez, half the poster's on here make the same comments my wife does and she barely even watches football. We have another thread saying we are now a defensive football team, what in the world. How do people justify our entire season based off 2 preseason games? We've looked like crap before in PS and had good regular season play. Give the Oline some time to figure things out. Patriots and Texans got dominated by our first team Dline also. Other teams I've watched, as I've said, they struggled with their Oline. It's common at this point in the year.

 

[blackadder]

Everyone knew this O Line was an issue, but do they draft any lineman? Nope, receiver and running back. Michael Thomas looks like he is gonna be great, and Lasco I shows promise...

It's gonna be tough for those guys to find any space if we can't block a soul.

If we really wanted to bring someone good in to play guard, it could have been achieved. We chose to go other routes.

So be it. If this is the way the O Line is going to play the rest of the year, it will be a 6-10 season. I hate it, but that's the reality.

The Texans kicked our butts up front all night long

Worrying because if Drew was going to try to play another2-3 seasons and is strong and healthy enough to do so, you need the OL to be set and a running game to lean on and we don't have either set.

If Drew runs for his life all year and he still wants to play more, this might be the last season as a Saints, and it would be hard to really blame him.

 

[Domeination]

Everyone knew this O Line was an issue, but do they draft any lineman? Nope, receiver and running back.

This. WE finally decided to go out and get some LBs after years of subpar linebacking, and now we're facing the same problem with the O line. We KNEW we needed a true starting guard, but we didn't draft a single O lineman this year. And for how high he was drafted, Peat is starting to become a concern. If our O line can't do better than last night, it's going to be a long season even if the defense is improved. We couldn't run block or pass protect effectively last night in the first half when our starters were in. Last preseason when our D generated zero pash rush there were posters who kept saying "Don't worry about it. It's just preseason." Well, I guess we're gonna hear the same thing about our inability to get more than 1.9 yards per rush or keep Brees clean. If we don't see improvement in the next two games, we're in trouble folks.