Obama to open up on Bill's "dissembling" (1 Viewer)

[SaintsFan11]

I think Edwards acquitted himself well by rising above the bickering of Hillobama, who seemed like two toddlers fighting in the backseat of a car. JE also seemed more focused and, for lack of a better word, ****** off from the word go......

It seemed that way at first, until he started going after both candidates. Then he tried making jokes, interjecting humor during other people's answers that fell flat. After every debate where neither Hillary nor Obama messes up, the media crowns Edwards the winner. I doubt we'll see it translate in the polls. The short-term is a gain for Obama, because Hillary did nothing to stop her hemorraging among black voters. The long-term may be a gain for Hillary because all she has to do is drive up Obama's negatives. She has the base.

We'll see how Obama handles it all, he'll need to thread the needle closely.

I read on Politico that Edwards and Hillary had a meeting in his green room after the debate. That is an interesting tid-bit, and a Hillary/Edwards alliance spells trouble for Obama. I don't see how Edwards could endorse Hillary considering he said earlier that he and Obama were change agents and Hillary was the status quo, but anything is possible in politics. My guess is that she is merely trying to keep him alive, knowing that the longer he stays in, the better for her. Maybe she can convince him not to support Obama, and stay neutral when it's all over.

This thing is getting very heated, which sould give Obama some hope. At the very least it means this race is going to be volatile and the chances for error are high all around.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Neither Clinton nor Obama came off very well when they were going at each other. If one could deflect the other's criticism with some humor as opposed to further going down in the mud or whatever then that would go a long way.

I agree. Obama gets way to caught up in deflecting the attacks and even though he's generally being honest it comes off as making excuses. Also, as a man he just can't keep turning to Hillary and gesturing at her. It gives the appearance, true or not, that he's trying to physically intimidate her.

Hillary comes off has a petty old crow but honestly that will mean little to her supporters. Hillary and Ron Paul both have cult like followings and there's very little they can do to lose (or gain) support.

Edwards just needs to get the heck out already. He's accomplishing nothing except watering the "real" election down. He's a distant third in every state. Let it go John, just let it go.

 

[Sandman]

Edwards just needs to get the heck out already. He's accomplishing nothing except watering the "real" election down. He's a distant third in every state. Let it go John, just let it go.

He probably already has a deal lined up with Hillary. They were sticking together early when they were caught on tape trying to exclude some of the candidates from the debates. My guess is that he will stay in as long as she needs him to in order to make sure that Obama doesn't get his supporters. Then he will come out and throw his support behind Hillary. Just my guess at what I think will happen.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

He probably already has a deal lined up with Hillary. They were sticking together early when they were caught on tape trying to exclude some of the candidates from the debates. My guess is that he will stay in as long as she needs him to in order to make sure that Obama doesn't get his supporters. Then he will come out and throw his support behind Hillary. Just my guess at what I think will happen.

The only monkey wrench I see in that is how hard he went after her in New Hampshire. Unless the plan all along was to give the impression of two guys ganging up on the woman to galvanize female support. I don't think that was it though because it seemed very genuine.

At best I think he has made a deal with her recently, like in the last few days. I just can't see anyone taking him on as a VP with how poorly he performed in that capacity in 2004.

 

[DMaestro]

Neither Clinton nor Obama came off very well when they were going at each other.

Obama came across as a kid who resolved one night that he wasn't gonna let the bully pick on him any longer. He was a little too strident in his own defense and the confrontation escalated beyond what was warranted. The whole "I was working the streets of Chicago when you were a corporate lawyer for Wal-Mart" comment was the converse of Robert Johnson's bush league reference to his drug past. Normally surrogates would make those kinds of snipes, but Obama has no surrogates with the clout of Bill Clinton, who's been the junkyard dog in this campaign. So it's a tricky course to chart.

Hillary for her part looked foolish with the "slum lord" comment. That kind of juvenile comeback couldn't have played well with the national audience, but she does have more room for error.

If John Edwards had any kind of viability as a candidate, he would've gained a big boost from last night. People say he won the debate, but no one cares. His broken-record leftist rhetoric doesn't mean much to me, and apparently it isn't winning over too many other folks either. But we shall see what happens on Saturday.

 

[Sandman]

The only monkey wrench I see in that is how hard he went after her in New Hampshire. Unless the plan all along was to give the impression of two guys ganging up on the woman to galvanize female support. I don't think that was it though because it seemed very genuine.

At best I think he has made a deal with her recently, like in the last few days. I just can't see anyone taking him on as a VP with how poorly he performed in that capacity in 2004.

I think he was trying to win when he went after her in NH, but I still think there is probably a wink-nod thing going on between the two rather than a concrete agreement at that point. Clinton is much more into "the game" than Obama is. She is much more likely to "reward" Edwards than Obama would be. It may not even be a VP position.

I will say that I thought Edwards did much better as the VP candidate than I thought he would be. I thought Cheney would eat him alive, but Edwards held his own. Kerry was just a terrible candidate.

 

[SoonerJim]

Obama came across as a kid who resolved one night that he wasn't gonna let the bully pick on him any longer. He was a little too strident in his own defense and the confrontation escalated beyond what was warranted. The whole "I was working the streets of Chicago when you were a corporate lawyer for Wal-Mart" comment was the converse of Robert Johnson's bush league reference to his drug past. Normally surrogates would make those kinds of snipes, but Obama has no surrogates with the clout of Bill Clinton, who's been the junkyard dog in this campaign. So it's a tricky course to chart.

Hillary for her part looked foolish with the "slum lord" comment. That kind of juvenile comeback couldn't have played well with the national audience, but she does have more room for error.

If John Edwards had any kind of viability as a candidate, he would've gained a big boost from last night. People say he won the debate, but no one cares. His broken-record leftist rhetoric doesn't mean much to me, and apparently it isn't winning over too many other folks either. But we shall see what happens on Saturday.

I agree with all of the above, adding that I do not believe debates are Obama's best format. There's a sporting interest in determining who "wins" debates, and I don't know how that plays out in the next month.

Hillary's charge of "slumlords" is amazing given that Whitewater had, at its heart, real estate speculation. Obama lacked either the imagination or the backknowledge to bring out the clinton skeletons. Perhaps that will be next week.

If Edwards' support is white blue-collar, they'll vote Hillary after his exit. I will not grieve.

 

[SaintsFan11]

I agree. Obama gets way to caught up in deflecting the attacks and even though he's generally being honest it comes off as making excuses. Also, as a man he just can't keep turning to Hillary and gesturing at her. It gives the appearance, true or not, that he's trying to physically intimidate her.

Yeah, but what do you do against a campaign that says something patently false and then apologizes? Or something that is a cheap shot, and then apologizes? It's tough because with the Clintons, you have two pros at scorched earth politics. If you spend all of your time responding, you're not getting your message out. If you don't respond, that gives them free reign to keep saying things that aren't true or are out of bounds. The only option, therefore, is to hit them back. Unfortunately for Obama, he's the candidate who presents himself above the fray. Check-mate. These next two weeks, as I said, will require a very skillful threading of the needle on the part of the Obama campaign. He's got a scalpal and the Clintons have a machete.

As for the idea that 'well, you may not like the Clintons, but you have to admire their political acumen,' I reject this notion. They represent everything that's wrong with politics as the left wing purveyors of Rovian tactics. There is no shame, especially considering that what they attack Obama for they are 10x more guilty of. Take his "praise" of Reagan. The Clintons have both praised Reagan in much more glowing terms than Obama. This doesn't even begin to address their multiple scandals. It's outrageous.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Interesting article about Obama's decision to take on "The Clinton's" instead of just Hillary.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8070.html

I think he's playing with fire here. He's going to have to play this just right lest he come off sounding too much like obsessed talk radio conservatives swimming in Clinton hate. If people equate him with the run of the mill Clinton hater he's sunk.

 

[DMaestro]

Obama's got big ******* 'nads facing off against the two-headed Clintmonster. As an independent, I'm not in love with Bill Clinton's legacy and would say "give 'em hell!" But I imagine frumpy, old-line Dems are appalled by this upstart junior senator from Chicago.

I give Obama high marks for being visionary. He is truly trying to wrest away the Democratic party from the Clinton stranglehold and lead it where he would have it go. Naive or not, he has the most unique voice amongst the Dem candidates. This is not the battle the Clintons expected to be fighting in this election; they were supposed to be gearing up for the Republican attack machine by now. No wonder the hatred between the two camps is so palpable.

I don't think I've ever wished so fervently that 3rd-party candidates could actually win a presidential election in this country. I'd gladly support Obama as an independent if the Dems don't want him.

 

[Dave]

Obama had a tendency to vote present on many issues while he was in the Senate instead of taking a stand on certain issues. I would much rather Obama as president than Hillary, but what does that say about him that he couldn't make his postions known when he was preparing to run for the presidency? He needs to explain in detail why he voted present on those issues.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html

 

[Severum]

He has responded to the IL present votes (note that the article is a year old). The NY Times had a more balanced story on the votes last month.

 

[SoonerJim]

All of the actions of Obama the Clintons have criticized are defensible. This is how that family comports elections, particularly when they have an opponent a little more animated than Bill's energtic "nemesis", Paul Tsongas.

My amusement reached a crescendo when Pat Leahy, an Obama supporter, sadi Bill was "demeaning" his office by attacking Obama. Peggy Noonan keeps a photo of Markie Post and Linda Thomson jumping up and down on the Lincoln bedroom matress to keep such nonsense in perspective.

http://www.badblue.com/temp/071020-thomason-post.jpg

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

All of the actions of Obama the Clintons have criticized are defensible. This is how that family comports elections, particularly when they have an opponent a little more animated than Bill's energtic "nemesis", Paul Tsongas.

My amusement reached a crescendo when Pat Leahy, an Obama supporter, sadi Bill was "demeaning" his office by attacking Obama. Peggy Noonan keeps a photo of Markie Post and Linda Thomson jumping up and down on the Lincoln bedroom matress to keep such nonsense in perspective.

http://www.badblue.com/temp/071020-thomason-post.jpg

Who the hell cares what Peggy Noonan thinks?? :dunno:

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Obama had a tendency to vote present on many issues while he was in the Senate instead of taking a stand on certain issues. I would much rather Obama as president than Hillary, but what does that say about him that he couldn't make his postions known when he was preparing to run for the presidency? He needs to explain in detail why he voted present on those issues.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html

That has been covered at length. It's a common practice in Illinois and part of the political culture there. Obama actually has fewer than many representatives in Illinois. It's a way of making your opposition to bills that are going to pass clear.

Very often his Present votes were an orchestrated effort of Present votes by Illinois Democrats.