Offenses with the lowest rates of pass-catchers being considered open or wide open...32. New Orleans Saints (1 Viewer)

[No2DC]

I think it was because he was our last resort. According to the media the saints went after 3 or 4 QBs this off-season then settled on Winston.
I think they are catering to what he does well and that’s why our D is sluggish. He throws more deep balls in 2 games this year than Brees would throw in a season. Brees read the d at the line and had an idea which routes would be there and checked down quickly if it wasn’t. I’m not sure Winston checked down once this year. Secondly we have always been a screen team but those short accurate passes aren’t a part of Winstons positives that’s why everything he throws is over 10 yards it seems.

If Dalton were to come in and play well and lead us to a win would be the only way to tell if it’s scheme or QB.

What 3/4? I only recall Watson being a serious consideration. Now I know this board has thrown around names for a while. You don't make switch to make a point. Also, heard Allen was the one who started Carr as a rook; just saying. Again, I'm not saying Jameis is not without fault but I don't buy the scheming logic for guy who been in the building for 3 years.

 

[Taker597]

I think it was because he was our last resort. According to the media the saints went after 3 or 4 QBs this off-season then settled on Winston.
I think they are catering to what he does well and that’s why our D is sluggish. He throws more deep balls in 2 games this year than Brees would throw in a season. Brees read the d at the line and had an idea which routes would be there and checked down quickly if it wasn’t. I’m not sure Winston checked down once this year. Secondly we have always been a screen team but those short accurate passes aren’t a part of Winstons positives that’s why everything he throws is over 10 yards it seems.

If Dalton were to come in and play well and lead us to a win would be the only way to tell if it’s scheme or QB.

He's checkdown a lot this year... The biggest problem he's not able to target intermediate or use Kamara in the passing game as much as he should... Only things he been throwing are deep or short unless he's running hurry up.


But we constantly beat up Kamara with in between tackle runs like an idiot. I don't get it man.

 

[bearze34]

It's not even the weapons.

There is something seriously wrong with the mayonnaise sandwich offense we are trying to run.

It's like promoting an OC that only called plays once in the past 10 years in a 9 point game wasn't the wisest decision.

For instance, is Winston allowed to audible? Can he change up protections? He seems to stare at whoever the play is designed for and throw it, coverage be damned and no audibles in sight, ever. After watching Cooper Rush run the Dallas offense I was even more in touch with Winstons liabilities. Hopefully he will catch fire this week.

 

[StudioSaint]

I could accept that thinking if Jameis just got in the building but he's been here by invitation for three years and the coaches have known for months he was their guy. If the playbook doesn't fit Jameis why did you bring him and keep him? If you know Jameis is your starter why are you not catering to what he does well. I'm not saying Jameis doesn't deserve blame but coaching and planning is part of it as well.

I don't know what's happening behind the scenes and I'm not making any claim about what's happening behind the scenes.

I just want to say that an offense is not automatically going to be successful just because it's tailored to the QB. The QB's execution of the offense plays a significant role in the success of the offense.

For instance, the offense Payton designed around Brees mainly worked so well, because Brees made it work so well.

If Payton tailored an offense to my strengths as QB, that doesn't mean the offense would be successful with me at QB. And it wouldn't be successful. It would be ugly, very ugly, like make George Plimpton look like Brees by comparison, ugly

 

[Taker597]

For instance, is Winston allowed to audible? Can he change up protections? He seems to stare at whoever the play is designed for and throw it, coverage be damned and no audibles in sight, ever. After watching Cooper Rush run the Dallas offense I was even more in touch with Winstons liabilities. Hopefully he will catch fire this week.

I saw him killing plays against Tampa and Carolina.

A handful of protection calls, but not as much as you would like to see.

 

[Taker597]

The QB's execution of the offense plays a significant role in the success of the offense.

No... The whole Offense plays a significant role

If Brees doesn't have a good offensive line. He got his chest caved in.

When Brees didn't have good WRs... They couldn't pass all that well against good defenses.

When Brees didn't have good run blocking or great RB... We couldn't run the ball and forced him to pass and throw picks because they go coverage heavy.

You can't win games when special teams are missing no pressure kicks. We cut our Superbowl Kicker in 6 games because of it.

When we have skill player fumbling or QB throwing INT( It doesn't matter who... Winston, Taysom, Book, or Brees). We lose winnable games.

Everyone has a significant role. It's why I'm very concerned, because I wish replacing Winston was the key to everything, but every credible Saints Analyst saids there are problems acrossed the board.

I hope the offense does some soul searching in London, because they need it.

 

[StudioSaint]

No... The whole Offense plays a significant role

There's a reason I didn't say "only the QB's execution of the offense" plays a significant role in the success of the offense.

Everyone else can execute like all pros, but if the QB is executing badly, then the offense is going to struggle. Good QB execution alone is not enough for success on offense, but good QB execution is absolutely necessary for success on offense.

So as I said, even if an offense is tailored to a QB, it doesn't guarantee that the offense won't struggle. If the QB poorly executes the offense tailored to them, then the offense will still struggle.

 

[Saintificial]

I think the decision making of Jameis is too long before he takes finally the throw. Through his eyes you can see how his brain is rendering.

 

[Big_L]

nope. only problem is winston.

Starting Dalton fixes everything.

Even Global warming.

I'd rather see what Book can do.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I got a lot of neg rep for suggesting our receivers were a part of the problem and aren't getting any separation.

Anything that isn't placing all of the blame on Winston doesn't fit the narrative that most of this board are pushing.

Their lack of separation is not because of their lack of skills, it's because the overwhelming majority of their formations start with the wide-outs in tight formations inside the numbers, with their routes being curls, hitches and square outs. Occasionally, there the one guy running a 9-route as a clear out tactic, or as I like to call it, "The Cooks Route".

How are they supposed to get separation when over 80% of your passing play starts from this type of formation?

These tight formations are begging for pressure and contested throws/catches.

 

[BBarnes]

Here’s the thing, we’re top 10 on total yards, top 10 in passing yards, and right outside of the top 15 in rushing yards. And yet our scoring offense is in the bottom half of the league.

That suggest that we’re a bad team especially once you look at the turnovers. We dead last in turnover differentials, have the most turnovers in the league, and we’re doing it both on the ground and through the air.

On top of that, we are 2nd highest penalized team in the league and our run defense is near the bottom of the league.

Then you have special teams…. We are currently hitting 50% of our field goal attempts. That’s absolutely horrible.


The answer is simple. We are just undisciplined and are constantly making mental mistakes. You can’t win playing this bad in all phases of the game.

Right, as much as I know Winston is playing bad football because of a multitude of reasons. It’s just as much the people around him and more importantly the coaches that are bad.

You can’t be this bad in this many areas and it be anything other than coaching or lack of talent. We know it’s not a lack of talent sooo…..

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

To go one further, Joe Brady took that same scheme to LSU and won a national title and destroyed every D they faced, they had an accurate QB thst could read a D and get rid of the ball.

No he didn't. He took what they ran in the early daze and won a national championship! It's been almost ten years since they were capable of running what LSU ran.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Their lack of separation is not because of their lack of skills, it's because the overwhelming majority of their formations start with the wide-outs in tight formations inside the numbers, with their routes being curls, hitches and square outs. Occasionally, there the one guy running a 9-route as a clear out tactic, or as I like to call it, "The Cooks Route".

How are they supposed to get separation when over 80% of your passing play starts from this type of formation?

These tight formations are begging for pressure and contested throws/catches.

You're going to see teams by default bring 2 guys against our tight sets....We're inviting 8 into the box...and the defense is bringing 6...which 6? You don't know and you can't tell...but you better guess right or someone is coming free....it happened twice with tremendous consequences, the sack to push our 2nd FG attempt back -3pts, and the tip pick -3pts...

You can't tell me with a straight face, that when the offense lines up like this and the defense responds by showing zero blitz, that unless your QB is MIss Cleo, has no idea who is coming vs who isn't.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

You're going to see teams by default bring 2 guys against our tight sets....We're inviting 8 into the box...and the defense is bringing 6...which 6? You don't know and you can't tell...but you better guess right or someone is coming free....it happened twice with tremendous consequences, the sack to push our 2nd FG attempt back -3pts, and the tip pick -3pts...

You can't tell me with a straight face, that when the offense lines up like this and the defense responds by showing zero blitz, that unless your QB is MIss Cleo, has no idea who is coming vs who isn't.

Whenever I see that formation, I chalk it off as a wasted play and that is to include when Brees was playing.

 

[Taker597]

You're going to see teams by default bring 2 guys against our tight sets....We're inviting 8 into the box...and the defense is bringing 6...which 6? You don't know and you can't tell...but you better guess right or someone is coming free....it happened twice with tremendous consequences, the sack to push our 2nd FG attempt back -3pts, and the tip pick -3pts...

You can't tell me with a straight face, that when the offense lines up like this and the defense responds by showing zero blitz, that unless your QB is MIss Cleo, has no idea who is coming vs who isn't.

It doesn't help when this team can't run any screens to take advantage of it.