Offensive line has to play better.. (2 Viewers)

[Saintslfc13]

I’m not here for the o-line slander on pass pro. Pass pro has been solid, they’re being blitzed darn near every play and the plays that are designed to beat the blitz are not being thrown to correctly. The inside run blocking has been trash though, particularly to the left side of the line. We should run more off tackle plays but I get that why we don’t, it’s a long developing run that doesn’t offer a lot reward to the risk. Winston has to beat the blitz to make them respect it over the top. Every team in the league understands what we’re trying for to do. They also know that they cant beat us if we don’t beat ourselves

 

[49erKiller]

The whole team, especially the QB except Blake Gillikin, needs to play better.

FiFY

 

[Belfast Saint]

Tell me you don't watch the game with without telling me... You use box score stats.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but yes, the 5.5 yards per rush is the average for the season. I also watch the games and I generally see a relatively efficient running game.

I don't subscribe to Nick's paid content so you'll have to provide some insight as to what he says. Does he say the OL has been poor at run blocking this year? If he does, does he explain how as a team we've managed to have a very good average yards per rush? I'd be curious to understand.

 

[Belfast Saint]

I’m not here for the o-line slander on pass pro. Pass pro has been solid, they’re being blitzed darn near every play and the plays that are designed to beat the blitz are not being thrown to correctly. The inside run blocking has been trash though, particularly to the left side of the line. We should run more off tackle plays but I get that why we don’t, it’s a long developing run that doesn’t offer a lot reward to the risk. Winston has to beat the blitz to make them respect it over the top. Every team in the league understands what we’re trying for to do. They also know that they cant beat us if we don’t beat ourselves

I don't think the OL has covered themselves in glory in pass pro to be fair. But as you suggest, good pass pro consists of more than just the 5 OL blocking. We've given up 11 sacks this year. Without any deep analysis, I think around half of those can be chalked up to running backs or Jameis (either not navigating the pocket well enough or holding the ball too long/ being indecisive - which then raises questions about whether the receivers are getting open etc). Still isn't great but there's a wider context.

 

[greg8710]

We’re constantly going 3 and out. That gives the other teams rb plenty of opportunities to rack up the yards tbh

 

[Louie18914]

Need to fire Pete Carmichael, Ronald Curry and Doug Marrone

simple as that

Bring in an experienced playcaller

PC has no clue

we (NFL) is a pass first offense league because it HAS TO TO WIN

You cant be a run first offense and win in the modern NFL. run plays complement the passing game and situational

PC calling run on every 2nd down and being 3rd and long is creating the scoring incompetence

 

[BarBar]

Need to fire Pete Carmichael, Ronald Curry and Doug Marrone

simple as that

Bring in an experienced playcaller

PC has no clue

we (NFL) is a pass first offense league because it HAS TO TO WIN

You cant be a run first offense and win in the modern NFL. run plays complement the passing game and situational

PC calling run on every 2nd down and being 3rd and long is creating the scoring incompetence

Great point. It's like Carmichael only thinks 10 yards at a time. Those runs on 2nd down are designed just to reach the marker and ignoring the next 50 yards. It feels that way anyway. Not to mention it it totally predictable, and therefore not successful.

 

[Lord Stanley]

Need to fire Pete Carmichael, Ronald Curry and Doug Marrone

simple as that

Bring in an experienced playcaller

PC has no clue

we (NFL) is a pass first offense league because it HAS TO TO WIN

You cant be a run first offense and win in the modern NFL. run plays complement the passing game and situational

PC calling run on every 2nd down and being 3rd and long is creating the scoring incompetence

Clearly this staff forgot Sean's ability to "self-scout". Our tendencies are predictable with both personnel and down/distance. It's a combination that leads to the putrid anemic results.

 

[SaintswonSBXLIV]

This offense needs to find its own identity. From the top on down, they need to throw Sean's playbook away and figure things out for themselves. I see a bunch of guys out there without passion, fire, or cohesiveness. From the coaching staff, down to the last man on the roster.

Yes, Winston needs to make quicker reads and make better decisions under pressure.. but the offensive line has not done him or our RB's any favors.

When there are guys running untouched towards the QB, there's an issue, and it happens a lot. I think the McCoy is calling the protections and not Winston? Whatever arrangement is in place.. it's not working.

I've never seen Kamara and Ingram struggle to run between the tackles as bad as this season. And why can't we dial up some quick slants or screens to get the defense to stop tee'ing off on Winston?

I think that Winston has been disappointing for sure. But I'm not going to pin it all on him. The line needs to play better to give him a chance.

And speaking of lines.. what happened to our d-line? No sacks, no hurries.. guys sitting back in the pocket taking all day to make reads/throws? RB's going 100+ yards on them? Thankfully our secondary is baller, but that isn't going to work against the great teams.

I just don't know.. I'm not one to panic, ever. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned about this team's future as it sits. Way too much talent to look like this.

What you see is a QB who Coach Payton rightly limited in what he was allowed to do. Payton limited what Winston was allowed to do, thereby making his job easier. What you see now is a QB who is unchecked and an OL than cannot rely upon its QB to make protection calls and checks at the line of scrimmage.

 

[sfidc3]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but yes, the 5.5 yards per rush is the average for the season. I also watch the games and I generally see a relatively efficient running game.

I don't subscribe to Nick's paid content so you'll have to provide some insight as to what he says. Does he say the OL has been poor at run blocking this year? If he does, does he explain how as a team we've managed to have a very good average yards per rush? I'd be curious to understand.

I’m usually on the other side of this argument, but I think the 5.5 average is inflated by some big splash run plays (TH 50+ yarder, AK 27 yarder)….not a bad thing mind you but I think we don’t run the ball consistently well enough (3-6 yards per carry) to extend drives as in the past….continuity and consistency are absolute key in the run game, I really don’t think we have that now….

I also think this team lacks an offensive identity and that is on the coaching staff….

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Great point. It's like Carmichael only thinks 10 yards at a time. Those runs on 2nd down are designed just to reach the marker and ignoring the next 50 yards. It feels that way anyway. Not to mention it it totally predictable, and therefore not successful.

Exactly...he calls plays to setup a 3rd and short which puts everything on converting 3rd down, and when we don't we're left to punt. The drives where we were most successful we weren't playing 1st and 2nd down to setup 3rd...we were playing to move the ball...and that works. At least it feels like it works

 

[Belfast Saint]

I’m usually on the other side of this argument, but I think the 5.5 average is inflated by some big splash run plays (TH 50+ yarder, AK 27 yarder)….not a bad thing mind you but I think we don’t run the ball consistently well enough (3-6 yards per carry) to extend drives as in the past….continuity and consistency are absolute key in the run game, I really don’t think we have that now….

I also think this team lacks an offensive identity and that is on the coaching staff….

I fully understand the point and it's generally better to run 4x for 5 yards than 3x 0 and 1x 20. However, even if you take out the two long runs you reference, we're averaging 4.3 ypc. Though I'd argue that if you took out the 5 interceptions Winston threw, he'd have a much better rating. Can't really cherry pick too much before it becomes nonsense.

I think for the most part, we have run the ball consistently well. Could it be that people see one or two plays in one game which gets stuffed, or the greater generator of takes - the announcers make a comment - and get that opinion? In my recollection there are a lot more effective runs in that 3-6 yard category than anything else, with a few less positive plays and some very positive plays.

The bigger problem in sustaining drives has been penalties, turnovers and being relatively poor passing on 3rd downs.

 

[broccoli60]

Run game would look a whole lot better without two fumbles which one took points away from us and the other gave the opponent direct points. Both gave the other teams huge momentum boosts. It hasn’t been totally in sync but it has been serviceable. The O line before the Ingram fumble had begun dominating the Bucs D line. That’s not something easily done.

 

[Belfast Saint]

Run game would look a whole lot better without two fumbles which one took points away from us and the other gave the opponent direct points. Both gave the other teams huge momentum boosts. It hasn’t been totally in sync but it has been serviceable. The O line before the Ingram fumble had begun dominating the Bucs D line. That’s not something easily done.

Yes, we ran the ball pretty well against TB, without Kamara, and that's not easy. The fumbles have been killers.

The bottom line is, we're not playing well offensively and need to improve across the board. However if I were to pick an area of least concern offensively right now, it's our ability to run the ball (assuming all healthy).

 

[Eman5805]

I’m not here for the o-line slander on pass pro. Pass pro has been solid, they’re being blitzed darn near every play and the plays that are designed to beat the blitz are not being thrown to correctly. The inside run blocking has been trash though, particularly to the left side of the line. We should run more off tackle plays but I get that why we don’t, it’s a long developing run that doesn’t offer a lot reward to the risk. Winston has to beat the blitz to make them respect it over the top. Every team in the league understands what we’re trying for to do. They also know that they cant beat us if we don’t beat ourselves

My assumption is runs to the left return to prominence when we bring back Penning. But that’s way in November at the soonest.