Offensive or not? Chicago Cubs 2008 print ad... (1 Viewer)

[geauxboy]

So the two swastikas in your apartment are for 'good luck'?

Good luck and good fortune. And yes, it is clockwise and not counterclockwise like the German version.

 

[SeminoleMarine]

To answer geauxboy's question of "Am I to be held at fault for not being born soon enough to know?" As far as I am concerned, no. I know the meaning behind it and what it stood for from my relatives (who fought in WWII) point of view and I still find no offense in the ad. As I said I think it is a nice marketing ploy by the ad agent.

 

[geauxboy]

Marketing has no concerns over who gets offended, I'm sure. Their job is to create a buzz and to have people talking about around the water cooler. Appears to me as if it's working just fine if we are on SR.com talking about the Cubbies.

I wonder though. Is the Rising sun supposed to be a national pride thing now in Japan or is it frowned upon? IMO, it may just be something the advertisers threw in there to incorporate the Japanes fan base a bit more. Make them feel more a part of the American game and it's fans.

 

[JimEverett]

The Cubs obviously do not care about their Korean-American and Korean fans.

 

[Waymer]

So the two swastikas in your apartment are for 'good luck'?

I too have a swastika in my room, but it deals with the religion/philosophy of Jainism and has nothing to do with the Nazis. Again, the use of the swastika is not solely relegated to the Nazis...there are multiple uses as a symbol world wide.

 

[geauxboy]

I too have a swastika in my room, but it deals with the religion/philosophy of Jainism and has nothing to do with the Nazis. Again, the use of the swastika is not solely relegated to the Nazis...there are multiple uses as a symbol world wide.

Correct. Even the GE building (30 Rock) has swatikas on the floor of the Concourse level.

How bout Chase Bank? Watch carefully when the symbol comes up. It's clearly a swastika that quickly transforms to the symbol of the bank.

......and no, I do not find any conspiracy behind it.

 

[Complex Kid]

Don't forget the Metrodome:

http://deadspin.com/sports/nfl/the-metrodome-gestapo-108775.php

 

[Sandman]

This is what I would call offensive....

 

[theSpaniard]

From answers.com

***The flag was used in overseas actions from the Meiji period to World War II. When Japan was defeated in August 1945, the flag was banned by Allied Occupation authorities. However with the re-establishment of a Self-Defense Force the flag was re-adopted in 1954. The flag with 16 rays is today the ensign of the Maritime Defense-Force while the Ground Self Defense-Force uses an 8 ray version.

This flag is often considered offensive in countries which were victims of Japanese hostility, particularly China, Australia, United States and the Koreas, where it is seen as alarming, nationalistic and hostile.***

Maybe I'm counting wrong, but I only see 15 rays on that banner. Oh yeah, there's also a big cubs logo in the middle.

 

[St. Widge]

The Cubs obviously do not care about their Korean-American and Korean fans.

I think they are just trying to forget the He Sop Choi era.

 

[St. Widge]

I too have a swastika in my room, but it deals with the religion/philosophy of Jainism and has nothing to do with the Nazis. Again, the use of the swastika is not solely relegated to the Nazis...there are multiple uses as a symbol world wide.

True. But, I'll add that I think most people are offended by the Swastika because of the Nazi program of ethnic cleansing more than the fact that we fought a war with them. We've fought wars with lots of nations with empires or desires to create empires and we don't find their flags offensive. No body seems to find the Union Jack or the Tri Color offensive.

So, unless I am unaware of some particularly heinous actions by the Japanese, beyond the initial surprise attack, then I'm not sure why the flag of Imperial Japan would be offensive.

 

[geauxboy]

Does anyone know if the dude even needs an interpreter?

Would it be as offensive is it was the national flag instead?

 

[Waymer]

True. But, I'll add that I think most people are offended by the Swastika because of the Nazi program of ethnic cleansing more than the fact that we fought a war with them. We've fought wars with lots of nations with empires or desires to create empires and we don't find their flags offensive. No body seems to find the Union Jack or the Tri Color offensive.

So, unless I am unaware of some particularly heinous actions by the Japanese, beyond the initial surprise attack, then I'm not sure why the flag of Imperial Japan would be offensive.

Yes, I agree. I suppose though, plenty of people could still find anything Japanese offensive depending on their situation. I'm sure some survivors of Pearl Harbor hold resentment, as you mentioned.

I also agree think placing people in ovens or relegating them to concentration camps and carrying out their cleansing is enough to make most people despise the swastika forever.

 

[Bundok Saint]

I'm of Filipino descent so there's no love lost between me and wartime Japan. For those that think Pearl Harbor was the only heinous act committed by Imperial Japan, read up on the Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, Comfort Women, their treatment of POWs, the list goes on. The contempt for that flag by WWII vets and non-Japanese Asians is well deserved.

That being said, I agree with Waymer and SeminoleMarine that it's become nothing more than a "cool little logo" in today's day and age. Heck, even the US Navy used a version of that symbol as the logo for the VF-111 "Sundowners" Fighter Squadron.

 

[Saintman2884]

I have a mixed reaction to the Japanese. Those guys work their arses off in term of getting good production out of their employees and their economic output shows it. but as a student of history, I am not naive to the militarism and extreme nationalism shown for nearly a 100 years after the Meiji Restoration in 1868. Japan has sometimes had a victim's mentality to its past or maybe a ambivalence to their past bad actions. Take the horrific war crimes they committed in WWII, for a long time many Japanese felt that they had done nothing wrong or that the reports were exaggerated as if someone made it up to embarrass them. that can be dangerous in terms of educating the right way. I will point out though that many Japanese realize that their actions were wrong during WWII, that has been a rising current of thinking for the past 20-30 years in the country. But I still like many things about the Japanese. I like their work ethic, their business management skills are boundless, and their baseball players are pretty damn good too as evident by the signing of Fukodome by the Cubs and Ichiro with the Mariners. They love baseball and to a lesser extent football. Also pro wrestling is a bit time draw in that country, with guys like Cactus Jack and Terry Funk being big time hard core wrestlers and doing some memorable matches their in the 90's