Official Gameday Thread -- Saints vs Dolphins (1 Viewer)

[sammymvpknight]

S

Stop deflecting criticism and appearing like an weak apologist.

Then, why haven't we seen the Payton from 2006-2011, or 2013. The man who used to be a fearless, engaging, innovative schemes and playcaller. The man who dared to be original and blew my mind for 7-8 seasons at how far ahead he was of other HC IQs.

I don't see that guy anymore, and frankly I haven't seen the same drive, determination, creativity and animated genius who could gameplan better then anyone else.

Even before 2021, even 3-4 years before Brees' retirement, Payton was becoming predictable, one-dimensional, too stuck in his ways, he didnt seem more interested in trying to solve problems then trying to show off and look "cute" and play up his credibility instead.

Sean Payton from 2006-2011 and 2013 wasnt some bloated, predictable egomaniac. He was exciting, unconventional and didnt follow the norms but didnt come across like some elitist, smug, clueless idiot doing it.
I want that Payton back, not this chubby, middle-aged parody I'm seeing right now and have seen him slowing turning into the past 5-6 seasons.

Was it 2012 that rattled his confidence in himself? Because in some respects, he hasn't been the same guy since the Deflate gate scandal.

His offense sucks. It’s actually really impressive that the Saints are close to .500 with this trash heap of an offense

 

[mg6035]

This 2020 class looking like a bust

The one really disheartening thing is seeing that Ruiz is a total bust. It’s one thing to see your sixth and seventh tackles beaten like a drum. But I watched Ruiz whiff over and over again. I don’t know who is respond for evaluating offensive linemen but he needs to be replaced.

 

[SubmarineMike]

You think the saints are better than the dolphins?

This offense is the worst I've seen in the NFL in recent memory

Which offense? What is the Saints offense this season? We haven’t seen a true Saints offense all season.

 

[mg6035]

His offense sucks. It’s actually really impressive that the Saints are close to .500 with this trash heap of an offense

Well, five of those wins were when we still had Winston and a healthy offensive line.

 

[Goatman Saint]

S

Stop deflecting criticism and appearing like an weak apologist.

Then, why haven't we seen the Payton from 2006-2011, or 2013. The man who used to be a fearless, engaging, innovative schemes and playcaller. The man who dared to be original and blew my mind for 7-8 seasons at how far ahead he was of other HC IQs.

I don't see that guy anymore, and frankly I haven't seen the same drive, determination, creativity and animated genius who could gameplan better then anyone else.

Even before 2021, even 3-4 years before Brees' retirement, Payton was becoming predictable, one-dimensional, too stuck in his ways, he didnt seem more interested in trying to solve problems then trying to show off and look "cute" and play up his credibility instead.

Sean Payton from 2006-2011 and 2013 wasnt some bloated, predictable egomaniac. He was exciting, unconventional and didnt follow the norms but didnt come across like some elitist, smug, clueless idiot doing it.
I want that Payton back, not this chubby, middle-aged parody I'm seeing right now and have seen him slowing turning into the past 5-6 seasons.

Was it 2012 that rattled his confidence in himself? Because in some respects, he hasn't been the same guy since the Deflate gate scandal.

Payton the last few years was hamstrung with a QB whose arm and accumulated injuries were not allowing him to use a whole playbook. It’s hard to be creative and unpredictable when your QB is a shell of his former self.

This year, I think he’s done an excellent job. The guy has been making chicken soup (not great tasting but ok) for the majority of the season. The team has been through a hurricane that displaced them, injury losses that have been insane, 2 different Covid outbreaks and who knows what else. He’s had to play it safe, and just go error free to try to get something done.

 

[Saintman2884]

His offense sucks. It’s actually really impressive that the Saints are close to .500 with this trash heap of an offense

Except the core issues have been glaring and have been becoming more obvious over the past 5-6 seasons, long before Covid-19 decimated the roster and put half of our team on the IR. Payton's play calling has become more predictable, a bit too easy to break down. There was a period from 2006-2011 and even during 2013 season where Defenses couldn't figure us out no matter they examined game film or clips. Payton always remained 1-2 steps ahead. I don't see that guy anymore, necessarily. I see glimpses every now and then but there were pre-existing issues even as far back as 2014 and 2015 where nagging little problems started popping up and it began hurting our team's on-field chemistry.

 

[Saintman2884]

Payton the last few years was hamstrung with a QB whose arm and accumulated injuries were not allowing him to use a whole playbook. It’s hard to be creative and unpredictable when your QB is a shell of his former self.

This year, I think he’s done an excellent job. The guy has been making chicken soup (not great tasting but ok) for the majority of the season. The team has been through a hurricane that displaced them, injury losses that have been insane, 2 different Covid outbreaks and who knows what else. He’s had to play it safe, and just go error free to try to get something done.

Except I saw these same problems with Payton's mentality as regards to his in-game decision making as far back as 2014, and 2015 when Brees' was still in the latter part of his prime. I remember watching Saints games 6-7 years ago and asking myself, "WTF is this crazy, predictable crap coming from our offense, Payton's smarter and more intelligent then this".

The thing is, I gave him the benefit of the doubt for over a decade because I believed one day I'd see the same OC who.could make Kerry Collins a Pro Bowl QB and resurrect his flailing career for 5 seasons in NYG might emerge again. Something, IMHO, cracked in him at some point and I'm hope I'm wrong but fundamentally, he's never come back fully.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Except the core issues have been glaring and have been becoming more obvious over the past 5-6 seasons, long before Covid-19 decimated the roster and put half of our team on the IR. Payton's play calling has become more predictable, a bit too easy to break down. There was a period from 2006-2011 and even during 2013 season where Defenses couldn't figure us out no matter they examined game film or clips. Payton always remained 1-2 steps ahead. I don't see that guy anymore, necessarily. I see glimpses every now and then but there were pre-existing issues even as far back as 2014 and 2015 where nagging little problems started popping up and it began hurting our team's on-field chemistry.

What are you talking about? The Saints offense has been really good over the past 5 years. They dropped off compared to the glory days because Brees dropped off. Last year he barely had the arm strength to throw the ball 20 yards down field…and he didn’t have Michael Thomas. But they were still a top 10 offense in spite of Brees limitations the past few seasons. That’s largely a credit to Payton.

 

[Saintman2884]

It wasn't his ego in this game yet THATS what YOU posted.

I didn't have to insult your intelligence.

You did that on your own.

You

It wasn't his ego in this game yet THATS what YOU posted.

I didn't have to insult your intelligence.

You did that on your own.

Calling same, predictable plays over and over again predicated on the belief that the opposing defense hasn't seen it before or that their DC is incapable of defending it comes across as arrogance and allowing one's ego to dictate his team's offensive production to me.

And you're being a bit arrogant yourself if you believe I'm the only one asking these same sorts of questions and not just on the SR forum as. Posters a lot more prominent then me and people you wouldn't suggest don't insult their own collective intelligences to their faces have asked many of the same rhetorical questions I have,

 

[Saintman2884]

What are you talking about? The Saints offense has been really good over the past 5 years. They dropped off compared to the glory days because Brees dropped off. Last year he barely had the arm strength to throw the ball 20 yards down field…and he didn’t have Michael Thomas. But they were still a top 10 offense in spite of Brees limitations the past few seasons. That’s largely a credit to Payton.

Its just some of Payton's nagging little problems started popping up more so after he came back from his 2012 season-long suspension. Besides Brees' didnt start declining until around 2017, what does that say for 2014-2017? Oh yeah, our excuses back then was we had sheetty defenses because we kept hiring or kept inept, incompetent DCs like Spags(strange how he looks so good now in KC), Rob Ryan post-2013, our FO kept on hiring terrible, mediocre DCs, had terrible drafts, signed awful defensive players like Darius Byrd and Brandon Browner that forced Drew 6 years ago to throw for 450 yards just to try and stay in a game.

 

[radkison]

Which offense? What is the Saints offense this season? We haven’t seen a true Saints offense all season.

And we won’t until we get a qb and legitimate wrs

The dolphins were clearly the better team. We are not a playoff team

 

[Saintslfc13]

I think you keep McCoy at C and bring in a mid-rounder to compete with Ruiz at OG. Guard is a position you can find after the first few rounds.

It’s a valid position and I don’t disagree but I do think you can play Ruiz at center and have McCoy shift and save the draft pick.

 

[paward]

I am glad we won. Take no pride thinking we were the better team. Saints pulling together any team last night has my respect. Relax guys been a Dolphin since 1970. Sun will and does shine tomorrow.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Still the complaints going against Payton I don’t think are fair. We simply haven’t had the talent at the skill positions to be creative. Payton’s strengths have been centered around finding ways to maximize a players strengths, and that’s what made his offense so good. But honestly the talent on the offense has been in decline for years. Our speed on offense hasn’t been the same since Henderson left. There is no Shockey or Graham. Colston and his massive over the middle skill set went to Jimmy then in Passing to Thomas. But who the last couple years.

I could go on about lack of talent at WR spots, but in the end, without some new horses this offense just isn’t going to be what it was

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

S

Stop deflecting criticism and appearing like an weak apologist.

Then, why haven't we seen the Payton from 2006-2011, or 2013. The man who used to be a fearless, engaging, innovative schemes and playcaller. The man who dared to be original and blew my mind for 7-8 seasons at how far ahead he was of other HC IQs.

I don't see that guy anymore, and frankly I haven't seen the same drive, determination, creativity and animated genius who could gameplan better then anyone else.

Even before 2021, even 3-4 years before Brees' retirement, Payton was becoming predictable, one-dimensional, too stuck in his ways, he didnt seem more interested in trying to solve problems then trying to show off and look "cute" and play up his credibility instead.

Sean Payton from 2006-2011 and 2013 wasnt some bloated, predictable egomaniac. He was exciting, unconventional and didnt follow the norms but didnt come across like some elitist, smug, clueless idiot doing it.
I want that Payton back, not this chubby, middle-aged parody I'm seeing right now and have seen him slowing turning into the past 5-6 seasons.

Was it 2012 that rattled his confidence in himself? Because in some respects, he hasn't been the same guy since the Deflate gate scandal.

In Sean's defense there's only so much he could do w/ a QB that had a hard 15 yard cap on his throws...It's a miracle we went 13-3, 13-3, 12-4 playing small ball those last few years of Brees. That was a testament to Sean's creativity as a placaller