Official "suicide swing" pass play thread (1 Viewer)

morals99

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I want to make it official. The dumbest utilization in our playbook is the swing pass to Reggie Bush. I'm asking that we coin the play The Suicide Swing.

You may refer to it as just another "running play" as most commentators did during the season. IMO it's the dumbest thing we can do, it usually nets about 3 yards, but sometimes is -3 yards. What it does accomplish most consistently is a high floating pass (Brees attempt to get the ball over the DE who KNOWS this play inside and out) which Reggie Bush has to stop and wait on while a linebacker or safety is drooling to jar his brain loose (You may remember the Sheldon Brown hit).

Pump fake that swing that the defenses love so much and let Reggie turn that into a wheel route.

I'm not saying we shouldn't run it ever, but this might be the most common play in our playbook. If Reggie Bush was drafted #2 overall and paid 50 million dollars I think we can be a little more careful and much more creative with him.

Sorry if this thread is a waste of time, but I had to vent.....again.
 

yankmccobb76

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I want to make it official. The dumbest utilization in our playbook is the swing pass to Reggie Bush. I'm asking that we coin the play The Suicide Swing.

You may refer to it as just another "running play" as most commentators did during the season. IMO it's the dumbest thing we can do, it usually nets about 3 yards, but sometimes is -3 yards. What it does accomplish most consistently is a high floating pass (Brees attempt to get the ball over the DE who KNOWS this play inside and out) which Reggie Bush has to stop and wait on while a linebacker or safety is drooling to jar his brain loose (You may remember the Sheldon Brown hit).

Pump fake that swing that the defenses love so much and let Reggie turn that into a wheel route.

I'm not saying we shouldn't run it ever, but this might be the most common play in our playbook. If Reggie Bush was drafted #2 overall and paid 50 million dollars I think we can be a little more careful and much more creative with him.

Sorry if this thread is a waste of time, but I had to vent.....again.


Wasn't this our biggest play last year in the NFC Championship game?

Now, I'm not saying it has worked since but........
 

SaintsFanatic

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Wasn't this our biggest play last year in the NFC Championship game?

Now, I'm not saying it has worked since but........


The screen play wasn't our biggest play. Bush ran the wheel route and it led to TD.
 

rickyjones

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Pump fake that swing that the defenses love so much and let Reggie turn that into a wheel route.

I agree this would be awesome. It worked in the 06 NFCCG and the Bears had a great D. An up the middle running attack makes this play even more likely to work.
 

Numbskull

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I actually wish we were able to throw it more this year. This play creates space in the middle of the field as teams must occupy the flat at most times to defense it, especially in 2006 when threw this one atleast 6-8 times a game.
 

Waymer

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Well, it is what it is...and extended running play designed to keep defenses honest and get the ball in the hands of Reggie in space. Seemed to work well against Dallas previously. :shrug:
 

zorro37

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If you establish the run, and your blockers maintain, the Swing pass will not be suicide, and will likely get a nice gain.
Look at this video of his highlights from 2006, when we successfully established the run, and had good blocking. A lot of these plays are swing passes.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hE-tmbX4Mmc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hE-tmbX4Mmc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

It's just another thing that, among many others, comes from Deuce being out. We cannot have them look for the power run inside and swing it out to Reggie for a big gain. That is why people shouldn't think of a Reggie as a one trick pony who can only play with a power back running in a 1-2 punch, because he isn't, but if you do have a power back who can establish the run, then the swing pass to Reggie Bush is a deadly play.
 

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there's nothing wrong with the play, drew just needs to read the D better... usually the corner drops off his receiver when bush goes in the flat, or an LB moves over... either way, someone else has opened up
 

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I think the "swing pass" will work better when Reggie is split with Deuce in the backfield again...teams wont be able to cheat so bad.
 
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morals99

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there's nothing wrong with the play, drew just needs to read the D better... usually the corner drops off his receiver when bush goes in the flat, or an LB moves over... either way, someone else has opened up


There is no reading the D, it's a designed play just like a screen pass is. Brees takes a quick 2 step drop jumps to dump it over the DE's head and blap Bush gets nailed MOST OF THE TIME. I love swing passes, but our version of it sucks. It's a designed running play and very obvious. Some good points are made about establishing a running game and yata yata yata...in theory YES. However we just run this play at anytime during a game, very little rhyme or reason to it. It's like they belive that this is how you give Reggie the opportunity to make a big play. It's not...get him the ball in space...sideline = no space. I love the wheel routes...it's still a perimeter play and occupies even more attention espececially against a cover 2.
 

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There is no reading the D, it's a designed play just like a screen pass is. Brees takes a quick 2 step drop jumps to dump it over the DE's head and blap Bush gets nailed MOST OF THE TIME.

It's a pre-snap read. Drew reads the defense, whether they're playing off the LOS and away from the sidelines, and checks to it. Bush doesn't get nailed "MOST OF THE TIME". Most of the time he gets 3-5 yards and goes out of bounds.

I love swing passes, but our version of it sucks.

A swing pass is a swing pass. It's a route the running back runs. There are no "versions" of it.

It's like they belive that this is how you give Reggie the opportunity to make a big play.

No. That's not what it intends to do. The purpose of it is to force the linebackers wide or the CBs short. It's "stretching the defense". "Stretching a defense" doesn't mean sending everyone 30 yards deep. Then the defense just plays 30 yards off the LOS. Stretching a defense involves someone on the LOS, someone 30 yards deep, someone in the middle of the field, someone on the sideline. In otherwords, force them to defend the entire field.

Again, the swing pass is, more often then not, almost certainly a pre-snap checkdown by Brees at the LOS because of what the defense is showing.
 

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there's nothing wrong with the play, drew just needs to read the D better... usually the corner drops off his receiver when bush goes in the flat, or an LB moves over... either way, someone else has opened up

Bingo. If anything needs to be added to it, a pump fake to Reggie and then hit the spot of the field the defender is vacating is the new wrinkle that should be thrown in.
 

atceagle

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Plays are used to set up other plays and plays are designed to look like different plays. Match ups, down and distance are the keys to play calling. I have no problem with the play.
 

meily

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I think its more annoying that Payton uses it as a staple to our offense, its easily guarded when its used as much as we use it, its either a check down or a screen when were are on third down.....we didnt use that wheel route all season...what gives?
 
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morals99

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It's a pre-snap read. Drew reads the defense, whether they're playing off the LOS and away from the sidelines, and checks to it. Bush doesn't get nailed "MOST OF THE TIME". Most of the time he gets 3-5 yards and goes out of bounds.



A swing pass is a swing pass. It's a route the running back runs. There are no "versions" of it.



No. That's not what it intends to do. The purpose of it is to force the linebackers wide or the CBs short. It's "stretching the defense". "Stretching a defense" doesn't mean sending everyone 30 yards deep. Then the defense just plays 30 yards off the LOS. Stretching a defense involves someone on the LOS, someone 30 yards deep, someone in the middle of the field, someone on the sideline. In otherwords, force them to defend the entire field.

Again, the swing pass is, more often then not, almost certainly a pre-snap checkdown by Brees at the LOS because of what the defense is showing.


Please do not talk down to me like I don't know what our "intentions" are with this play.

You don't find it a little dumb that Reggie Bush's primary role in this offense is to "stretch the defense" for what you call 3-5 yards. However I would say more like 4 yards once you factor in the no gains. Not to mention the incompletions when it's covered up.

You can "stretch the defense" with your full back, your TE, or your slot receiver...you don't have to use the most talented player on the field...unless of course the play is working for big yardage.

So...go stretch defenses elsewhere with 50 million dollar players. No matter how much we differ on how many times he gets "HIT" you can't argue that he does take his worst hits when he's vulnerable on these swing outs. Also, there are different versions of swing outs, deep swings, shallow swings, 3 step swings, 5 step swings, full back swings, slot swings, delayed swing outs...etc. etc. etc.

By your admition we have a #2 overall face of the franchise 50 million dollar halfback who's primary role is to stretch the defense for a "3-5" yard gain and take un necessary punishment while doing so.....BRAVO !!!!
 

Waymer

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You don't find it a little dumb that Reggie Bush's primary role in this offense is to "stretch the defense" for what you call 3-5 yards. However I would say more like 4 yards once you factor in the no gains. Not to mention the incompletions when it's covered up.

And 4 yards is a bad thing? Again, it's an extended hand off to Reggie. If Deuce runs for 4 yards on a given play everyone is satisfied...but I guess a 4 yard pass play to Reggie is a waste?

You can "stretch the defense" with your full back, your TE, or your slot receiver...you don't have to use the most talented player on the field...unless of course the play is working for big yardage.

Using your most talented player is more meaningful than a TE. Spam explained it well already regarding how everyone involved forces the defense to consider everything.

So...go stretch defenses elsewhere with 50 million dollar players. No matter how much we differ on how many times he gets "HIT" you can't argue that he does take his worst hits when he's vulnerable on these swing outs. Also, there are different versions of swing outs, deep swings, shallow swings, 3 step swings, 5 step swings, full back swings, slot swings, delayed swing outs...etc. etc. etc.

You're greatly over exaggerating the hits he has taken on these plays...it's like you have a loop of the Eagles playoff game going or something.

By your admition we have a #2 overall face of the franchise 50 million dollar halfback who's primary role is to stretch the defense for a "3-5" yard gain and take un necessary punishment while doing so.....BRAVO !!!!

Again, your over exaggerating how much the play is used. This play isn't even close to Reggie's primary role. Secondly, Reggie's primary role is to help the team win games, even if this helps, so be it.
 

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