Official "suicide swing" pass play thread (2 Viewers)

You don't find it a little dumb that Reggie Bush's primary role in this offense is to "stretch the defense" for what you call 3-5 yards. However I would say more like 4 yards once you factor in the no gains. Not to mention the incompletions when it's covered up.

And 4 yards is a bad thing? Again, it's an extended hand off to Reggie. If Deuce runs for 4 yards on a given play everyone is satisfied...but I guess a 4 yard pass play to Reggie is a waste?

You can "stretch the defense" with your full back, your TE, or your slot receiver...you don't have to use the most talented player on the field...unless of course the play is working for big yardage.

Using your most talented player is more meaningful than a TE. Spam explained it well already regarding how everyone involved forces the defense to consider everything.

So...go stretch defenses elsewhere with 50 million dollar players. No matter how much we differ on how many times he gets "HIT" you can't argue that he does take his worst hits when he's vulnerable on these swing outs. Also, there are different versions of swing outs, deep swings, shallow swings, 3 step swings, 5 step swings, full back swings, slot swings, delayed swing outs...etc. etc. etc.

You're greatly over exaggerating the hits he has taken on these plays...it's like you have a loop of the Eagles playoff game going or something.

By your admition we have a #2 overall face of the franchise 50 million dollar halfback who's primary role is to stretch the defense for a "3-5" yard gain and take un necessary punishment while doing so.....BRAVO !!!!

Again, your over exaggerating how much the play is used. This play isn't even close to Reggie's primary role. Secondly, Reggie's primary role is to help the team win games, even if this helps, so be it.
 
You can "stretch the defense" with your full back, your TE, or your slot receiver...you don't have to use the most talented player on the field...unless of course the play is working for big yardage.
no you can't... very few (anybody?) FBs or TEs or slot receivers can turn a swing pass into an 80 yd. TD, or even a 12 yd. gain... when bush touches the ball on plays like that he's a threat on every play, just as he was in '06
 
You don't find it a little dumb that Reggie Bush's primary role in this offense is to "stretch the defense" for what you call 3-5 yards.

That's not his primary role.

You can "stretch the defense" with your full back, your TE, or your slot receiver...you don't have to use the most talented player on the field...unless of course the play is working for big yardage.

It's the threat of big yardage which forces the necessary attention to the play, which requires Reggie Bush. Defending the swing isn't an after-thought if Reggie Bush is on the field, it's a focus.


By your admition we have a #2 overall face of the franchise 50 million dollar halfback who's primary role is to stretch the defense for a "3-5" yard gain and take un necessary punishment while doing so.....BRAVO !!!!

That's not my "admission"
 
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it wasnt a wheel route it was a smoke route, that play was sean payton knowing how the bears would defend that certain formation (split back) it was probably sumtin like 62 smoke/slant the 2 bein colstons slant that picked briggs, and the smoke bein Reggie's route, and the other slant bein coppers route on the other side of the field
 
That's not his primary role.



It's the threat of big yardage which forces the necessary attention to the play, which requires Reggie Bush. Defending the swing isn't an after-thought if Reggie Bush is on the field, it's a focus.




That's not my "admission"

If our production on these swing passes is a "threat" then lining Bush up in I formation and running a sweep is a threat as well.

All you have established is that this is a 3-5 yard play to stretch the defense and that everytime it happens he is a "threat" to go all the way.

On earth however this is a 2-5 yard play, which does stretch the defense but only laterally. (Where a smoke, or wheel would stretch vertical and lateral) It is a naked play for Reggie, so he is exposed everytime he goes after a ball that may "drift". This play has never gone for more than probably 10-12 yards, and has probably lost 8-10 on a few occasions due to Bush trying to make something out of nothing.

I just don't understand how these plays are anything more than an unnecessary risk.

You can go into detail all day about what it opens up, or whatever...the bottomline is that Reggie Bush is catching this 1-5 yard pass 5 times a game, and it's not opening up anything FOR HIM. Use someone else as your setup man, and let Reggie hit the home runs. The production from this play, and the production from Reggie speaks for itself.
 
That play has gotten us more first downs in clutch situations then I can count. Yes sometimes it is sniffed out. For the most part it is at least 3-4 yards. Bush has also taken many of them 10-20 yards.

We'd be stupid to get rid of a play that has been such a big part of our success.
 
If our production on these swing passes is a "threat" then lining Bush up in I formation and running a sweep is a threat as well.

All you have established is that this is a 3-5 yard play to stretch the defense and that everytime it happens he is a "threat" to go all the way.

On earth however this is a 2-5 yard play, which does stretch the defense but only laterally. (Where a smoke, or wheel would stretch vertical and lateral) It is a naked play for Reggie, so he is exposed everytime he goes after a ball that may "drift". This play has never gone for more than probably 10-12 yards, and has probably lost 8-10 on a few occasions due to Bush trying to make something out of nothing.

I just don't understand how these plays are anything more than an unnecessary risk.

You can go into detail all day about what it opens up, or whatever...the bottomline is that Reggie Bush is catching this 1-5 yard pass 5 times a game, and it's not opening up anything FOR HIM. Use someone else as your setup man, and let Reggie hit the home runs. The production from this play, and the production from Reggie speaks for itself.

There is nothing wrong with running a play that gets you 4 yards. You're not going to bust a long play every time you touch the ball. The Saints are at their best when they are matriculating the ball down the field in 4-8 yard chunks and Brees is spot on with his accuracy. All 4 yards does is help guarantee or get another first down.
 
it wasnt a wheel route it was a smoke route, that play was sean payton knowing how the bears would defend that certain formation (split back) it was probably sumtin like 62 smoke/slant the 2 bein colstons slant that picked briggs, and the smoke bein Reggie's route, and the other slant bein coppers route on the other side of the field

Colston's slant is what made that play work. wheel or smoke route, you are correct that it was not the swing pass that started this thread.

The swing pass works fine as it is. It worked for a touchdown against the Jaguars this year and it worked for numerous first downs during the season with both Bush (see Seattle game) and Stecker (see other games).

It was also mentioned by Brees and/or Payton that when teams do what the Eagles did (Sheldon Brown) that Drew needs to quickly pick it up and hit the receiver going long down the sideline who'll have 1-1 coverage against a safety that is likely coming late. If the saftey is there in time then the middle of the field should be wide open for the TE. It's just such a quick bang/bang play that you leave it up to the physical abilities of the players.

The play that got me this year was when we lined up 4 wide with a single back. The single back was almost always not the primary ball carrier (meaning Thomas or Stecker (when bush was healthy) ). EVERY time we ran a draw play out of this formation. Yes, it worked with Thomas' touchdown run against Atlanta as well as some other first downs on third and short but it REALLY became predictable by the 15th and 16th games. I like the formation but I'm curious if there are other plays out of it.
 
There is nothing wrong with running a play that gets you 4 yards. You're not going to bust a long play every time you touch the ball. The Saints are at their best when they are matriculating the ball down the field in 4-8 yard chunks and Brees is spot on with his accuracy. All 4 yards does is help guarantee or get another first down.

Well said. The backs are also less likely to take an injury type hit on the sides than they are in the middle of the field. See the Baltimore game last year or the Rams game this year. Reggie got twisted up in both occasions by LB's right over the middle of the field. Out on the wings he knows where the hits will come from and can avoid them more -- also leading to less turnovers.

Show me a hit besides the S.Brown one on the swing passes that gives you reason to call this a 'suicide' play....?
 
That play has gotten us more first downs in clutch situations then I can count. Yes sometimes it is sniffed out. For the most part it is at least 3-4 yards. Bush has also taken many of them 10-20 yards.

We'd be stupid to get rid of a play that has been such a big part of our success.

Exactly....Since when is a 4 yard gain considered a "suicide play?" Sure, the play looks like something that should net us more yards but that isn't what it is designed for. Its a great play that keeps the defense honest and it really makes it difficult for defenses to continuously blitz us. Dallas decided they could keep blitzing us and paid the price for it.

Also, like Bonchie said, that play has gotten us 8-10 yards SEVERAL times and sometimes its gotten 15-18 yards. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of times I have seen Reggie get a first down with that play (usually followed quickly by him darting out of bounds).

Bad thread.
 
I don't know. I seem to recall it works about half the time, which is no better than you can realistically hope for on any given play call. I've seen them run a trips right or left formation, with Bush lined up two yards behind two WR's, and Bush catches the pass and goes for a gain of anywhere from 8 - 15 yards at times because the WR's manage to engage the defenders in their bump and run coverage, and Bush slips past them.

Granted, using the formation as a decoy and running the ball instead would prevent defenses from overloading that side with an extra safety or LB, but they have to respect the running game, something that did not happen this year, especially after Deuce went down in week 3.
 
Wasn't this our biggest play last year in the NFC Championship game?

Now, I'm not saying it has worked since but........

That wasn't the swing pass, that was the wheel route.
 
That wasn't the swing pass, that was the wheel route.

Yeah, it wasn't as pointed out above, but it is accurate to say it was one of our most effective plays in 2006 and in noway should it be scrapped.
 
I want to make it official. The dumbest utilization in our playbook is the swing pass to Reggie Bush. I'm asking that we coin the play The Suicide Swing.

You may refer to it as just another "running play" as most commentators did during the season. IMO it's the dumbest thing we can do, it usually nets about 3 yards, but sometimes is -3 yards. What it does accomplish most consistently is a high floating pass (Brees attempt to get the ball over the DE who KNOWS this play inside and out) which Reggie Bush has to stop and wait on while a linebacker or safety is drooling to jar his brain loose (You may remember the Sheldon Brown hit).

Pump fake that swing that the defenses love so much and let Reggie turn that into a wheel route.

I'm not saying we shouldn't run it ever, but this might be the most common play in our playbook. If Reggie Bush was drafted #2 overall and paid 50 million dollars I think we can be a little more careful and much more creative with him.

Sorry if this thread is a waste of time, but I had to vent.....again.

This play is not a suicide play. It's designed to get the RB in space. Deuce scored a touchdown on a swing pass in the Philly playoff game. There's nothing wrong with gaining 4 yards.
 

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