On saluting the flag. (1 Viewer)

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There are five examples of war atrocities committed under the US flag shown below. A complete list would be much longer.

When we stand and salute the flag are we also praising this, as well as racial injustice, etc? That flag is not pristine and does not stand for all we claim- all that has been drilled into us almost daily since birth. The truth is there are plenty of reasons for someone who is capable of thinking on their own to refuse to stand and salute the flag. If I were black, I see no way that I could stand and salute that flag.

As Frederick Douglass said in a speech on July 5, 1852, "The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me."

That was a long time ago and things are still not right for black people. We all have to admit that fact.

I support Colin Kaepernick and the black community in the fight for justice. I love this country, but I am not blind to the fact that we have a lot of work to do to make it right, and I am not in favor of supporting something that is obviously wrong.

This country was meant to be made up of people - families, friends and neighbors, like those out on the streets trying to do what they can to initiate change. We have strayed from that ideal, and our country is now defined and ruled by bigwigs in Washington and the corporations and rich plutocrats that support and direct them, and the people have little or no power.

Which group does the flag stand for? This is not the country our founding fathers intended. The policies and actions taken by this country no longer represent the will of the people. Like it or not, that flag has become a symbol of a country run by interests whose main goal is money, power and control, including control of the people of this country.

We need to take steps to take back control of our country. We can only do so together, and we can only come together when our black brothers and sisters feel that they are on equal footing and have an equal part and equal say in the actions taken.
Work can only start if we all open our hearts and minds and seek the truth. We have to admit that there is a problem before we can begin to seek a solution. I do hope that process has finally started. We all need to do whatever it takes to make sure that the words of Frederick Douglass no longer define the status of any citizen in this country. Maybe then, we can all gladly stand and salute our flag.


1. No Gun Ri, Korea

In July 1950, around 400 South Korean civilians were killed in the town of No Gun Ri by US forces from the 7th Cavalry Regiment.

2. My Lai, Vietnam

On March 16, 1968, the Charlie Company, 11th Brigade entered the village of My Lai, in an area of Vietnam where many members of the American brigade had been maimed or killed by Viet Cong forces, PBS reported. The troops ended up killing over 300 civilians under orders from their Lieutenant, William Calley, who told his men to enter the village firing, though there had been no report of opposing fire, PBS reported.

3. Abu Ghraib, Iraq

In 2004, the world was shocked when photos were released of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The photos, which showed Iraqi detainees being beaten, abused and sexually assaulted, fueled Arab and Muslim rage against the United States.
4. Haditha, Iraq
On November 19, 2005, a group of US marines killed 24 unarmed men, women and children in the city of Haditha in Western Iraq. Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich admitted to telling his men to “shoot first and ask questions later."
5. Azizabad airstrike, Afghanistan
On August 22, 2008, Afghan civilians who had gathered in a small village for the memorial ceremony of a militia leader were killed by in an airstrike by US soldiers. The airstrike's estimated casualties varied widely between 30 and 90.
 
We get it. You don’t like America. Now can we move on! What are you trying to get out of this post?! More Hate? Nobody is telling you to live here or come here. It’s a personal choice to live in a country that allows you the ability to voice your opinion, but please stop trying to divide our fan base.
Thank you, appreciate your response .... You must have missed where I said 'I love this country'. Whatever the case, for some it's best to always stick to your own opinions and never consider another viewpoint. That way you can be assured of always being right. RIGHT? I am surprised to learn that I don't like America even though I volunteered to serve during the Vietnam war. Who woulda guessed? Thanks, again, for setting me straight. And, thanks for the advice, I will give it due consideration.
 
Two words that bring us together
Thank you, appreciate your response .... You must have missed where I said 'I love this country'. Whatever the case, for some it's best to always stick to your own opinions and never consider another viewpoint. That way you can be assured of always being right. RIGHT? I am surprised to learn that I don't like America even though I volunteered to serve during the Vietnam war. Who woulda guessed? Thanks, again, for setting me straight. And, thanks for the advice, I will give it due consideration.
Im a veteran as well. Thanks for your service.
 
Thank you, appreciate your response .... You must have missed where I said 'I love this country'. Whatever the case, for some it's best to always stick to your own opinions and never consider another viewpoint. That way you can be assured of always being right. RIGHT? I am surprised to learn that I don't like America even though I volunteered to serve during the Vietnam war. Who woulda guessed? Thanks, again, for setting me straight. And, thanks for the advice, I will give it due consideration.
Where did you serve and what branch?. Don't need to be too specific. Just name a unit and location.
 
There are five examples of war atrocities committed under the US flag shown below. A complete list would be much longer.

When we stand and salute the flag are we also praising this, as well as racial injustice, etc? That flag is not pristine and does not stand for all we claim- all that has been drilled into us almost daily since birth. The truth is there are plenty of reasons for someone who is capable of thinking on their own to refuse to stand and salute the flag. If I were black, I see no way that I could stand and salute that flag.


As Frederick Douglass said in a speech on July 5, 1852, "The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me."

That was a long time ago and things are still not right for black people. We all have to admit that fact.

I support Colin Kaepernick and the black community in the fight for justice. I love this country, but I am not blind to the fact that we have a lot of work to do to make it right, and I am not in favor of supporting something that is obviously wrong.

This country was meant to be made up of people - families, friends and neighbors, like those out on the streets trying to do what they can to initiate change. We have strayed from that ideal, and our country is now defined and ruled by bigwigs in Washington and the corporations and rich plutocrats that support and direct them, and the people have little or no power.

Which group does the flag stand for? This is not the country our founding fathers intended. The policies and actions taken by this country no longer represent the will of the people. Like it or not, that flag has become a symbol of a country run by interests whose main goal is money, power and control, including control of the people of this country.

We need to take steps to take back control of our country. We can only do so together, and we can only come together when our black brothers and sisters feel that they are on equal footing and have an equal part and equal say in the actions taken.
Work can only start if we all open our hearts and minds and seek the truth. We have to admit that there is a problem before we can begin to seek a solution. I do hope that process has finally started. We all need to do whatever it takes to make sure that the words of Frederick Douglass no longer define the status of any citizen in this country. Maybe then, we can all gladly stand and salute our flag.


1. No Gun Ri, Korea

In July 1950, around 400 South Korean civilians were killed in the town of No Gun Ri by US forces from the 7th Cavalry Regiment.

2. My Lai, Vietnam

On March 16, 1968, the Charlie Company, 11th Brigade entered the village of My Lai, in an area of Vietnam where many members of the American brigade had been maimed or killed by Viet Cong forces, PBS reported. The troops ended up killing over 300 civilians under orders from their Lieutenant, William Calley, who told his men to enter the village firing, though there had been no report of opposing fire, PBS reported.

3. Abu Ghraib, Iraq

In 2004, the world was shocked when photos were released of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The photos, which showed Iraqi detainees being beaten, abused and sexually assaulted, fueled Arab and Muslim rage against the United States.
4. Haditha, Iraq
On November 19, 2005, a group of US marines killed 24 unarmed men, women and children in the city of Haditha in Western Iraq. Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich admitted to telling his men to “shoot first and ask questions later."
5. Azizabad airstrike, Afghanistan
On August 22, 2008, Afghan civilians who had gathered in a small village for the memorial ceremony of a militia leader were killed by in an airstrike by US soldiers. The airstrike's estimated casualties varied widely between 30 and 90.
There isn't a such thing as a perfect country. They all have flaws and short comings. The US is no different. We can work on our short comings and I can argue that we have and have made progress. Still have things to do but that's a never-ending process. This is the greatest country on earth. It's disappointing to me that so many are willing to only look at our flaws and not look at the great things we accomplish as a country as well. Like I say....not perfect...but name a country that is.
 
Just a question...do you know how insensitive that you are being? Just because you don't want to stand and salute the flag that doesn't mean that people should feel bad about doing it. Are we living in crazy world or something?
[/QUOTE
Insensitive in what way? I didn't say anything about my actions and made no suggestion about what others should do. I absolutely am living in a crazy world where people seem unable to communicate.
 
A marine? I was in the Navy. :p
Para Rescue/Air craft mechanic Air Force. Funny story is my last year of Active duty, I got to fix all the political planes and meet some really imprtant people from all over the world. The Sultan of Brunei actually has gold plated seats in his cabin..... I was like a three year old kid in a candy store on his plane. The guy was handing out 100$ bills and iPads for helping him, which of course I couldn’t take cause I was at attention every time he spoke. We aren’t allowed to anyway. But, thank you for your service and your ability to speak outside the box. I apologize to you if I sounded pompous.
 
Navy, USS Forrestal.

well that explains why you don't like America...you were probably on the boat when it was burning and got your little hiney roasted :hihi:


Im a squid also....USS AMERICA...was based out of Norfolk until they turned her into an artificial reef
 
There isn't a such thing as a perfect country. They all have flaws and short comings. The US is no different. We can work on our short comings and I can argue that we have and have made progress. Still have things to do but that's a never-ending process. This is the greatest country on earth. It's disappointing to me that so many are willing to only look at our flaws and not look at the great things we accomplish as a country as well. Like I say....not perfect...but name a country that is.
How did you determine that "..... so many are willing to only look at our flaws... " just because they didn't share a list all the positives? ...... and that's not a complete list of flaws either. I didn't even address another country, great or not, nor attempt to rank them. I agree that no country is perfect ... but that statement about being the greatest is well-worn in some circles and very suspect.
 
well that explains why you don't like America...you were probably on the boat when it was burning and got your little hiney roasted :hihi:


Im a squid also....USS AMERICA...was based out of Norfolk until they turned her into an artificial reef
Can't be, I got out just before she sailed off into that fate.
 
Para Rescue/Air craft mechanic Air Force. Funny story is my last year of Active duty, I got to fix all the political planes and meet some really imprtant people from all over the world. The Sultan of Brunei actually has gold plated seats in his cabin..... I was like a three year old kid in a candy store on his plane. The guy was handing out 100$ bills and iPads for helping him, which of course I couldn’t take cause I was at attention every time he spoke. We aren’t allowed to anyway. But, thank you for your service and your ability to speak outside the box. I apologize to you if I sounded pompous.
Thanks man, no harm, no foul .... everyone has an opinion.
 

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