One of the biggest problems with America today: People don't know how to disagree but still get along (1 Viewer)

[Silverfox]

Yeah. Someone should tell the criminals on the streets to stop killing. That will solve the problem. Just walk up to them and be like, "No. Stop that."

Only when black people can end all violent crime in Chicago can we get cops to stop murdering people.

Much respect to you Eman for having the courage and mental strength to debate on online forums right now.

I'm just in no mood to debate, so as a fellow black man, I appreciate the ones that's voicing their opinions. Too much trauma for me to have a fair, civilized, and peaceful discussion right now and be told how to grieve and feel by someone who doesn't share my pigmentation and what it reflects to society, the prejudices and historic implications of my "history", the fear of entering rural areas from Google maps in the south and all over, being stopped by a cop, being credited for not acting "black" or talking "thuggish, being championed because of surviving poverty conditions and lack of educational resources, being told at least my name is not "ghetto" for jobs, being told to lie about my ethnicity for some opportunities, being rendered to a rapper or sports athlete, etc.

George Floyd was a tipping point for alot of individuals and I'm proud some was who didn't share my skin color. To anyone who would like to have a conversation with someone of color right now I would highly suggests to allow them to "grieve" first, listen, asks questions, and then have a open dialogue.


Being told how to think, feel, behave, or act has a DIFFERENT level of implications to us, since slavery and oppression is in our DNA and is our freaking history.


So for the time being folks please tread lightly, and I'll go back into hiding while brothers like Eman who is more equipped then me right now have a hopefully a healthy conversation.

 

[not2rich]

Whatever racism does exist, it's near the bottom of the list of problems plaguing black Americans.

I suspect you hate having the word "privilege" thrown at you, but your posts are the epitome of it.

 

[not2rich]

Brees is a class act.

People are hearing what they want to and polarizing racism unfortunately.

At this point I suspect Brees retires

I don’t know if the damage can be repaired. I’m also worried they may “forget” to protect him or he gets a cheap shot.

It’s not fair but it’s the way the world is now

I agree Brees is a class act, but he can be a good person yet not also recognize his own privilege. That's why he made the "disrespecting the flag" thing about himself without acknowledging the feelings of his black teammates.

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

 

[Taker597]

Brees is a class act.

People are hearing what they want to and polarizing racism unfortunately.

At this point I suspect Brees retires

I don’t know if the damage can be repaired. I’m also worried they may “forget” to protect him or he gets a cheap shot.

It’s not fair but it’s the way the world is

No, that's probably Peat falling down, again.

 

[Atreus21]

I suspect you hate having the word "privilege" thrown at you, but your posts are the epitome of it.

How.

 

[Xeno]

To "the people".... I saw one man.... one very violent and very likely racist man.... I saw three subordinates who were asking their boss to stop... should they have jumped in? Of course they should have... But who are "those people" Me??? I am one of "those people" who believe THAT COP should burn... who recognizes that our country is far from perfect but is still a country I am proud of.. a country who's flag I will stand and salute... a country that I want to help improve for ALL PEOPLE.... because you see "the people" are outraged at what happened... "the people" are also outraged that a white cop was shot in the back of the head trying to protect private property.. "the people" are outraged that a 60 something Y.o. black cop was shot serving as a security guard by "the protestors"...
I know we can't talk about "the protestors"... but you can generalize about "the people"

What I saw was one man driving his knee into the neck of another while two other men held him down with a fourth on lookout. I didn't hear any of them ask for him to stop. The only people I heard asking him to stop were the people watching four police murder a man.

 

[not2rich]

How.

I'll be happy to answer.

But first, tell me all the problems you think black people face that are bigger than "whatever racism exists."

 

[Tyrantslob]

Drew's comments yesterday were basically stating that while he knows that something must be done about the racial inequality in the country, he doesn't think that kneeling during the national anthem is the right way to do it. For that, he has been crucified. His view is that not standing at attention during the national anthem is disrespectful to the sacrifices of all those that allow us our freedoms today. What he's missing is that today's America still has a long way to go, and on the particular issue of racial inequality he hasn't really had to experience that first hand, so saying that 'America is great' sounds tone deaf coming from a white man. I think the right response would be for someone to listen to what he's saying, try to understand his viewpoint, and then try to explain why people think that kneeling during the anthem is a right way to protest.

Beyond this particular instance, I think that one of the biggest problems in America today is that people don't know how to disagree but still get along. If someone has a different view than you, it's easy to just say 'screw that person' rather than sit down and have a hard conversation. This leads to the extreme polarization we see in politics and beyond.

Yeah I don't think you're read of Drew's statement is really correct. The direct quote is this: " I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America or our country."
As I think dozens and dozens of people have said including Malcolm Jenkins (much more eloquently than I likely will be able to) Brees' comment erases the possibility that someone with a different experience than his own could come to a different conclusion. In a sense, Brees commits the very sin you implicate in the subject. His words dismiss the idea that disagreement could be valid. His statement assumes that the only way to see the protests which his teammates have led and participated in is as "disrespecting the flag." Hard to "agree to disagree" and "work together" if that disagreement invalidates the viewpoint and experience of the other.

We know from Drew's upbringing that his childhood was not easy. He was certainly not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. We also know that he's a white man who's never had to experience institutional racism, never had do the kind invisible calculations that people of color have to do to stay safe. I don't know for sure, but I strongly doubt he has thought hard until now about how different the experiences of two grandfathers, one black and one white, returning from war might be. I imagine he is now considering it and, if he is the good man I believe him to be, he may understand a little more.

And that's maybe my point in writing this post: I don't think I agree with you entirely about this disagreeing-but-getting-along-business. Agreeing to disagree surely serves those who already have power, because as long as we "get along" the status quo doesn't change. If we do not struggle to truly empathize and understand the experience of others we cannot grow, we cannot change ourselves or even think about changing society.

I do think it's not really helpful to pillory someone like Drew Brees, who I do believe is well meaning and has demonstrated a desire to help others through his philanthropy. I hate that we are quibbling about this question of whether he is "bad" or "good" when we all are complex people who contain multitudes. He is a man with a certain experience, like us all, and, although I don't believe he is bad, I surely believe his opinions are bad and that they cause harm when he uses his fame to amplify them. I think the question now if whether he will use the difficult lessons his teammates have tried to teach him to grow and change.

 

[flygirl]

No way. There's going to be a big time problem if that happens.

2cnd degree murder might be hard to prove...intent, etc. And yes, it will be a big time problem if they are acquitted because it cant be proven. Ugh.

 

[Xeno]

2cnd degree murder might be hard to prove...intent, etc. And yes, it will be a big time problem if they are acquitted because it cant be proven. Ugh.

From what I understand, Minnesota has two ways of proving 2nd degree murder. One requires intent, the other only requires that it happen during the commission of a dangerous felony.

 

[flygirl]

From what I understand, Minnesota has two ways of proving 2nd degree murder. One requires intent, the other only requires that it happen during the commission of a dangerous felony.

I just dont want them to overreach and have the guy be acquitted. Either way, his life is over. Best thing he could've done is a gunshot to his own head while he had the chance. And all of the former complaints against him. The people who dropped that ball should be made to answer for that as well.

 

[Derek_B]

First lets all be honest here... EVERYONE has some level of racism in them. Anecdote:

Last Friday I was in Walmart... A rather large black man with his pants well below his waist said to me "Sir can you help me... It is my wife's birthday and I want to buy her these roses (he had a dozen in his hand) but my wallet is in my car".. I immediately suspected a scam.. He was scarey looking... But i said ok and he dashed out of the store only to return in a couple of minutes saying thank you man... He called out to his wife I need to run to the restroom for a minute.. He paid for the roses and surprised his wife.. Great moment...

Yet my level of racism had me immediately doubt him... so yes I guess I am racist... I am sure Mr SaintsSpringBayou, you would have not for a second been worried int hat situation.. {sarcasm}...

My point is that we ALL have to learn how to better associate with each other. I don't believe choosing such a divisive topic such as kneeling for the national anthem is the way to solve the racism that is in ALL of us {don't tell me black folks don't have some level as well}... What it does accomplish is to get EVERYONE steeled into their corners and yelling at each other.. And I firmly believe there are some who want just that...

Great post. Thanks for your honesty.

 

[FlySaint]

From what I understand, Minnesota has two ways of proving 2nd degree murder. One requires intent, the other only requires that it happen during the commission of a dangerous felony.

Sec. 609.04 MN Statutes

The way I understand this statute is that Chauvin can be charged for 2nd degree murder but the jury can come back and convict on a lesser charge like 3rd degree or manslaughter. So I don’t think overreach in charging necessarily risks the cop walking if they can’t get him on 2nd degree.

 

[kizzy821]

Let me try to help.
You know who cares about black on black violence? Black people
Why is there so much black on black violence? Lots of unemployed young men
Why are they unemployed? Because it's hard to get work when you're a felon
Why are there so many felons? Because of the War on Drugs
Why are so many felons black? Because of the War on Drugs

The root cause is systemic oppression. But we should ask them to be outraged about "black on black" violence?

I'm not trying to be hard on you. It's not something that's intuitive or easy to see, especially if you're white. You have to have an open mind and be willing to educate yourself.

It's been said ad nauseam on this board and maybe further on in the thread, but Black on Black crime is no different than white on white crime. Criminals target the people they live around. Blacks tend to live around Blacks. Whites around whites. Mystery solved.

Secondly, Blacks aren't killing other Blacks simply BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK. To be targeted because you have melanin in your skin like you're supposed to; like most living beings have.

Thirdly, cops have been killing Black people since before "Black-on-Black crime" was even a thing. So what was the counter-argument then?

Fourthly, why can't we multi-task? We can be concerned about cops killing Black civilians AND crime in general at the same time. White people act like we can only be concerned about one at a time. And until we stop ALL other murders of Black people, don't come for the cops. Nope.

You don't get to dictate the process. If you're not going to help fix whatever issues are on the table, go sit your flag-stroking, anthem humming, good-for-nothing arse down somewhere.