Our defense lacks basic principals (long) (1 Viewer)

diehardfan

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Our defense lacks basic principles (long)

Our defense lacks other things as well, but one thing that is a chronic issue is our failure to set the edge on plays. I've noticed it countless times this year.

This is Defense 101 and we're terrible at it. Why? It was obvious that KC was attacking us on the edges early and we were getting beat.

The mis-directions and the waggle plays we're running us side to side and beating us down after down.

It has been a consistent issue throughout the entire year. We have a hard enough time setting the edge on a straight-forward play, but you throw in some misdirection and waggles and we're lost.

What concerns me is the consistency of the problem throughout the year. I understand we have been decimated by injuries, but it is also a small symptom of a much larger problem: bad defense.

When you watch good defenses play, you can tell they adhere to basic defensive principles. There aren't enormous gaps of space caused by misdirection and overpursuit of the football. The 3rd down defense makes sense: cover at and behind the 1st down, make them check it down, go and make the tackle. Boom, 4th down.

Our defense isn't like that. RBs run free out of the backfield. We overpursue just about every play. Waggles, misdirections, reverses, end-arounds...all of those plays eat us alive.

The Giants game is the only game where we seemed to play logical defense. We gave up a lot of yards but only 16 points.

The Breaux injury hurt us worse than anything else, without a doubt.

But here's my point: our defenses seem to lack basic concepts (or maybe they are more complicated than I can understand). I think a solid defensive coordinator could install a defense that plays better, consistently.

When was our defense good in the Payton era? When we hired a good defensive guy and let him coach. Yes, we had better players (who were healthy) but we at least had an aggressive defense that seemed like it was based on principles, knowledge and experience.

Our defense looks like a mess. We aren't aggressive; we play on our heels. We don't look like a unit.

Here's the bottom line IMO: yes, we have had more injuries than we should be dealing with, but there seems to be a deeper issue. It's not just a talent issue. We're setup to fail. We take a player like Byrd and ask him to do something different than has made him successful in the past. We're making personnel decisions that don't seem to be in tune with our defensive plan. That plan or philosophy also seems to be questionable.

I'm no coach but I know you have to hold your gaps and set the edge on defense. Why can't we do that?

TL;DR In a nutshell: our defense doesn't make sense and we don't manage personnel well.
 
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the other killer is those 3rd and long... again this week 3rd and 17yds, and the freaking Chiefs make it on an out rout and BW Webb is like 3 yds off the WR.

Most of the time we cant defend the screen pass. As you said, we get killed on misdirection and play action... once in a while a Saints player will diagnose the play well, but count on it he will be the only one. I just dont get it. We keep making the same mistakes again and again and again. Different players, different DC and same results... it is bluffing and sad.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="fr"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Saints?src=hash">#Saints</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> Film: Stupar terrible on Conley 18 yds on 3rd-17. Under-5 flat defender in &quot;prevent.&quot; He stood still + way too far inside.</p>&mdash; Andy Benoit (@Andy_Benoit) <a href="https://twitter.com/Andy_Benoit/status/790925634839117824">25 octobre 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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The defense gave up only 20 points against the Chiefs. Given the nature of our offense, that really ought to be enough.
 
I remember Deuce saying before training camp broke that the inability to set the edge was the most disturbing thing he saw out of the defense....
 
Weren't we all under the impression that this would be a rebuilding year? I think I read that somewhere.

My question is what is it about "rebuilding" that some fans do not understand?

You can bet on it that there are some players here now who will not be here next year..................Ellerbe, Jenkins, and Byrd are at the top of the list of wasted roster spots!!
 
Weren't we all under the impression that this would be a rebuilding year? I think I read that somewhere.

My question is what is it about "rebuilding" that some fans do not understand?

You can bet on it that there are some players here now who will not be here next year..................Ellerbe, Jenkins, and Byrd are at the top of the list of wasted roster spots!!

A rebuilding year means that there is some development of the team and it is slowly getting better. Our defense is somehow getting worse for the third year in a row. The op raises some valid points
 
IMO, it all starts with the D-line. A few players have shown flashes but are not consistent. I don't know how or why Bill Johnson is thought of as such a great D-line coach because he hasn't done anything to prove it. I wish I could go make six figures at my job and not have to show results and know I have job security!

Linebackers haven't been as bad as usual thanks to Robertson. JL was a wasted pickup, Ellerbe hasn't been healthy for 1/4 of the time he's been here. I still have faith in Anthony. Stupar and Mauti have played well but are not game changers.

Our secondary has been decimated like I've never seen. Against KC we started our #6 & #7 CB's. We had to pull Moore and Webb of the couch and they've actually done well. Byrd has been horrible in black and gold. I really wish they would put Bell in as the starter with Vacarro.

I was really hoping Allen would blitz Smith to cause pressure but he didn't. I guess he didn't want to get torched by the short passing game.

I really don't have an answer to help this D other than better talent and better D-line coach. I do think the defense has shown flashes and could be very good with a few new pieces like a pass rusher. Hopefully PJ and Swann can come back healthy next year or that's really gonna hurt.
 
Weren't we all under the impression that this would be a rebuilding year? I think I read that somewhere.

My question is what is it about "rebuilding" that some fans do not understand?

You can bet on it that there are some players here now who will not be here next year..................Ellerbe, Jenkins, and Byrd are at the top of the list of wasted roster spots!!

Definitely understand what you're saying but to the OP's point, our defense has been bad for a long time - before we entered this rebuilding year. Even during the best seasons - 2006, 2009, & 2011 - the defense gave up lots of yards and lots of points, but the other teams struggled to match the Saints' offensive production. When we ran into teams that could, we most likely lost (GB in 2011 comes to mind). I think it's been a flawed philosophy - you cannot match our offensive output so while we might give up yards and points, we'll steamroll your defense into submission. That actually works fine until you run into the likes of Chicago - 2006 NFCCG, SF 2011 playoffs, and Seattle 2013 regular season whipping and 2013 playoff loss - teams that play(ed) solid defense and put the pressure on our defense to make stops and we couldn't.
Now, while we still have a very good offense, it's not the 2011 squad that just made your head spin so the defense needs to do more and they've been incapable of doing so - outside of 2013. Unfortunately, the defense is extremely unhealthy this season and I believe that has to be taken into consideration, but we've had seasons at full health or near full health on D when we were still bad. I think it's a combination of team philosophy, coaching, and not having the right players for the job.
 
This pretty much sums it up as far as I'm concerned. I'm just so baffled most of the time over everything you've mentioned. That 3rd and 17 play blew my mind. I don't know coverages. I don't even know schemes but even I can tell that there is a huge lack of discipline within the design and execution of our "defense".
 
Our defense lacks other things as well, but one thing that is a chronic issue is our failure to set the edge on plays. I've noticed it countless times this year.

This is Defense 101 and we're terrible at it. Why? It was obvious that KC was attacking us on the edges early and we were getting beat.

The mis-directions and the waggle plays we're running us side to side and beating us down after down.

It has been a consistent issue throughout the entire year. We have a hard enough time setting the edge on a straight-forward play, but you throw in some misdirection and waggles and we're lost.

What concerns me is the consistency of the problem throughout the year. I understand we have been decimated by injuries, but it is also a small symptom of a much larger problem: bad defense.

When you watch good defenses play, you can tell they adhere to basic defensive principals. There aren't enormous gaps of space caused by misdirection and overpursuit of the football. The 3rd down defense makes sense: cover at and behind the 1st down, make them check it down, go and make the tackle. Boom, 4th down.

Our defense isn't like that. RBs run free out of the backfield. We overpursue just about every play. Waggles, misdirections, reverses, end-arounds...all of those plays eat us alive.

The Giants game is the only game where we seemed to play logical defense. We gave up a lot of yards but only 16 points.

The Breaux injury hurt us worse than anything else, without a doubt.

But here's my point: our defenses seem to lack basic concepts (or maybe they are more complicated than I can understand). I think a solid defensive coordinator could install a defense that plays better, consistently.

When was our defense good in the Payton era? When we hired a good defensive guy and let him coach. Yes, we had better players (who were healthy) but we at least had an aggressive defense that seemed like it was based on principals, knowledge and experience.

Our defense looks like a mess. We aren't aggressive; we play on our heels. We don't look like a unit.

Here's the bottom line IMO: yes, we have had more injuries than we should be dealing with, but there seems to be a deeper issue. It's not just a talent issue. We're setup to fail. We take a player like Byrd and ask him to do something different than has made him successful in the past. We're making personnel decisions that don't seem to be in tune with our defensive plan. That plan or philosophy also seems to be questionable.

I'm no coach but I know you have to hold your gaps and set the edge on defense. Why can't we do that?

TL;DR In a nutshell: our defense doesn't make sense and we don't manage personnel well.

Nice post. I posted about a month ago that the trainer said that the Saints LBs have no lateral speed and teams could take the edge on us pretty easily. That's just talent. Does Anthony have speed?
 
Weren't we all under the impression that this would be a rebuilding year? I think I read that somewhere.

My question is what is it about "rebuilding" that some fans do not understand?

You can bet on it that there are some players here now who will not be here next year..................Ellerbe, Jenkins, and Byrd are at the top of the list of wasted roster spots!!

Many of us believed we have been in full rebuild for a couple of years. Teams who wasted a ton on expensive non-performing FAs and years of bad drafts usually finish with 4 to 7 wins, 7 if you have a HOF QB. And we got slammed by the blind optimists for being disloyal or haters or dumb.

And many of us even prayed/hoped that we would make the playoffs this year and after having some FA money next year, a SB run if Brees stayed healthy. The playoff hope is over this year for me at 2-4 facing the gauntlet with a defense who needs a full MASH unit on the sidelines of games.

Our defensive problems are systemic. Bad position coaches and a coach who is really the GM, is terrible picking defensive coaches and talent. Ironic cause he is one of the top offensive geniuses in decades. We need a GM who can stand down SP on defense and FG kicker matters.

Now, all that said, I find this team really fun and exciting to watch. I love the moxy and effort put out by a defense ravaged by injuries who probably doesn't have enough talent as Bama. And this may be the best offense we have ever had. I've lived attempted rebuilds where I wanted to tear my guts out. This one is fun to watch and I think hopeful for the future.
 
We jus don't seem prepared and that starts with coaching. Not sure we even game plan. Jus tell the front 4 to rush the qb and everyone else cover someone.


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