Outcoached?? Too many passes? Etc. {multi-merges} (1 Viewer)

[NorfolkedSaint]

I was wondering the same thing. Why we have to throw for over 400 yds a game is beyond me. In many situations we are throwing when we don't need to. I understand the need to throw when you have to catch up but yesterday we weren't that desperate. Two interceptions in the red zone when all we had to do was run it is baffling.

 

[RichmondSaint]

I think you are right about Payton being taken off the offesnive by Fassel. I hope this is not a trend that he makes questionable decisions.....

 

[hawaiiansaint]

Definetly outcoached, but not by Lewis by himself.

 

[BIGSAINT]

Deuce was definetly effective today, until Payton decieded to get pass happy. We have to get back to the ball control offense that we were running in the first part of the season. Payton must have revised his playbook during the bye week, becasue this team hasn't been the same since.

 

[SaintKenn]

i was wondering this yesterday to myself. Payton gets way too pass happy with his play-calling. Now don't get me wrong, I love the wide open offense where we have so many weapons to get the ball to. But we have a guy named Deuce that I hear runs the ball pretty good. I hate questioning the play calling of our coach, but it seems necessary when we have 52 pass attempts in a close game and our running game is averaging over 4 yards a carry.

 

[SaintJ]

We had two critical redzone breakdowns caused by a QB who just made horrible, horrible decisions on two pass plays, forcing balls into situations where, if the first guy didn't intercept, the second guy would have.

Otherwise, we had 600 yards of total offense, 29 first downs and 33+ minutes TOP. I am having a hard time describing how he got outcoached: did the Bengals' DC and defensive staff get together and decide that if they gave us enough passing yards, we'd be sure to toss a couple of INTs inside the 10? If so, they get the all-time award for either creative defensive thinking, or predicting the future, and why the hell they're working for Mike Brown, god knows.

If you want to quibble, you might say, "gee, we've had trouble in the red zone this year, maybe when we cut through them through the air all the way down the field, once they're back on their heels, we should run it at them, or if we pound our way down there, that's exactly the right time for play action", and that somehow the first two picks, followed by our running it down their throats, allowed them to bow up and stop us after we got to 2nd and 2 at the five because they knew we'd be afraid to throw, but that's an awful finesse quibble to base an "outcoached" claim on when you had 600 yards of total offense, 29 first downs and 33+ minutes TOP.

What we had were two critical, critical red zone mistakes against an explosive team that we can actually outplay. There's a little more pressure on our offense not to turn the ball over, because we simply do not have the athletes on D to create turnovers, but the defense, as they have all year, played well enough for us to win, only to break down, as in the Panthers' game, when the offense couldn't turn yards into point. For the rest, go see the LSSpam post on the other thread.

 

[SaintsRays]

I wouldn't say so...

Take out Brees's 2 red zone INTs and turn them into TDs and we tie...

That wasn't a coaching mistake, that was a QB mistake... So I can't quite pin that on coaching...

So I wouldn't say we were outcoached, Brees just had an "off day" of sorts... He's liable to have 1 or 2 over the course of a season, just like every other QB (including Manning yesterday)...

 

[kooldak]

:bravo-applaudi-147:

Thank you SaintJ.

 

[hawaiiansaint]

Coach

During the game I posted that we did not have balance between the run and pass as I did against Pitt. Reading the board this week there seem to be alot of people with the same conclusion, as well as media personalities. For me this will be the biggest tell of Payton. Granted he has done a phenomenol(SP) job with limited proven talent in a short amount of time, but as another poster put it' the bar has been raised'. Haslett did great his first year and then decided he knew what was what and never deviated from it. Will Payton hear the cries for a more pronounced running game and look into the validity of the cries or does he knows whats best and thats that? In my mind the next few weeks will be the tell of not just a balanced team but a balanced coach. Everybodies wrong sometimes some people just dont know it. The past two games we gave away, but we are not only still in this, we are legit. I'm pulling for ya coach.

 

[St. Pike]

This is a foolish thread,... it was the turnovers that killed us, not coaching decisions.

 

[Pain_Link_Fence]

I would be to differ with you:

Second Quarter
New Orleans Saints continued...
1-10-NO43 (15:00) R.Bush left end to NO 48 for 5 yards (L.Johnson).
2-5-NO48 (14:21) D.Brees pass deep left to D.Henderson pushed ob at CIN 8 for 44 yards (T.James).
1-8-CIN8 (14:06) D.Brees pass short left intended for D.Henderson INTERCEPTED by M.Williams at CIN -4. M.Williams to CIN 21 for 25 yards (J.Brown).

The Saints had plenty of time their first trip to the Red Zone. Why oh why didn't they try to run the ball at least once. They were averaging 4 yards a pop.

Last time I checked, the game started in the first quarter. They started the game by running, and found they could move the ball by throwing. Putting up the second quarter pass fest only proves my point- they made adjustments to what the Bengals gave.
You also assume the Saints would not have run the ball in that series in the red zone had it not been intercepted on first down. Why?
The reason they didn't run in the red zone on that series was that it was intercepted.
The play before was a 44 yard first down, so there was one attempt in the red zone.
The Saints move the ball 49 yards in a minute, knowing the Bengals were not done scoring, and you want to blame the playcalling? Fine.
I don't see it.

 

[Pain_Link_Fence]

I'm Payton's biggest supporter, but I have a question for you coach types. Does the fact that we threw for over 500 yards in a CLOSE game while both of our backs averaged at or over 4 ypc indicate that we needlessly abandoned our running game. Wasn't this the reason Fassel pulled play calling duties from Payton in NY? Again, I'm just trying to understand why we didn't run the ball more. Deuce was his stellar self this game, and Reggie seems to 'get it'. Any of you guys have an idea?

Because both the Steelers and the Bengals have great ability to score quickly.
Because the Saints defense makes it even easier for a team to do so.
The Saints could not afford to have a close game and go to ball control with that combination.
If there were a different story at any point on the scoreboard, there definately would have been more running.

 

[Saint Dupree]

LOL. One of the funnier post I saw today. Let me ask you this: If Brees didn't throw the picks, would you be complaining? Basically you're saying the plays called were, hmmn, 'high turnover plays?' Or let me ask you this: if we pounded the ball in there and got stopped, what would you say? They we got too conservative?

I don't care how you spin it. 600 yards of total offense and 33 minutes of T.O.P. is GREAT play-calling. But there is no playcalling in the world great enough to overcome four offensive turnovers.

Payton didn't call 'interception in the red zone.' Brees didn't look if the LBers were in hook zones. And another play he tried to force it in....Payton didn't call 'WR2 Option Copper Fumble,' it happened...



LoL...no, you can't. So what you're saying if you don't have confidence in our passing game in the redzone; therefore, we should always run first? How long do you think it would take NFL opposing coaches to pick up on that?

Fragmaster hit the nail on tha head here, couldn't of said it better myself.
"Get Out of My Head!"

 

[BayouCajun]

The thing that don't make much sense is we are throwing the ball in the redzone on first down alot when we have a big back named Deuce who should be getting a chance to run the ball in alot of those situations IMHO. I noticed we tend to bring Reggie in the game to often in the redzone and take Deuce out. Hard to understand that part of our offense.

 

[LSSpam]

Otherwise, we had 600 yards of total offense, 29 first downs and 33+ minutes TOP. I am having a hard time describing how he got outcoached:

It comes down to: Payton has to stop calling that play "59 Red Left Interception in the End Zone"