Passing Defense without the Greer/Porter combo (1 Viewer)

[LSU ATC]

I broke down what I thought was the problem with the rush defense. Here The cutback lanes are killing us. It brought up some good conversation and I saw the thread with statistics about the defense with and without Greer. So, I thought I would take a look at the the highlights in the pass defense. I'm not a statistics guy, I like to break down film. I wish there was a way to really see every game in it's entirety on You Tube.

The main reason to be excited about Greer coming back is because of the play of the rookie M. Jenkins. I hate to knock on the kid, but NFL OC's know where to attack when there is a weakness in the defense. It also limits what GW can do on defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX3eYbqt3Z0

:22, Jenkins bites on the double move on the TD to Austin.

:34, He is in no man's land in the zone at the snap allowing the hot route to happen and Sharper can not get there in time.

That's the 1st qtr. 14 points that could be only 3 - 7.

1:25, Jenkins is 10 yards off the ball and is back pedaling to not get beat deep. Easy 17 yards there.

2:28, Porter reacts to the down and distance and makes a play in front of the 1st down marker to break up what should be an easy 1st. Looks like we are in a base 4-3 bringing pressure. MM and Porter are in the game, Jenkins not in.

3:14, 3rd and 7. MM 7 yards back and back pedals 5 yards allowing an easy in route for the 1st down. He should have help deep, not sure why he can not defend the sticks there.

Washington http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmeNy3tAirk - The worst defensive game of the Season IMO.

:11, Jenkins man to man up tight. Not a good jam on the WR at all. Gets beat and gets called PI on an underthrown ball. A good throw scores because the Saftey did not get over in time, but that PI will get called everytime.

:28, Our LBs have a tough time against athletic TEs and crossing routes. Good play, but to me with Vilma dropping straight back, Shanle should be responsible for the crossing route and was too late making a move to the outside on the play.

:41, come on Harper!!!

:50, SS/CB blitz from the twin Wr side? Don't know about the call, but it was a nice play to find the hot route by Campbell. (Note: Campbell is a decent QB that just never had the healthy O-line or supporting cast. He'll find a back up spot somewhere with the chance to start again in a year or two)

1:42, Jenkins bites on the double move.

1:55, Great play vs Man to Man. i wonder if Greer or Porter would have got there.

2:47, press coverage, no jam. I think that's Jenkins? Pretty good coverage on a fade route.

3:03, i think they found the hole in the zone. Either that or MM gets caught looking the the back field.

3:14, same play as the first TD. I think it's zone coverage where MM or Shanle don't get cover the crossing route flat enough. They ate our zone coverage up.

3:45, 3rd and 11. I have no idea how he got so open against Jenkins deep down the middle of the field. Double move?

I think Porter and Greer have the better instincts right now eventhough Jenkins is considered an aggressive corner. I'm really excited to see this team play with both CBs healthy again.

On Offense, as far as the Dallas and Tampa game go? Drew did not handle the pressure very well, fumbling several times. This year Drew has lost a fumble 6 times. That's more than he did in 2007 and 2008 combined. Also, we have been dropping too many passes at the tail end of the year and fumbling as well. Colston, Meachum and Devery.

Against Tampa, our WRs need to find the sticks. There were too many 4th and 1s were we had to punt.

I really think Shockey is a huge key of this offense moving the chains. Here's to hoping he can get that toe at 100% I know turf toe can be a SOB of an injury to come back from. i just hope he was held out the last 3 games as precaution only.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Great post and your darn right about Shockey. He would have made a huge difference in 3rd downs.

 

[Domeination]

I think Porter and Greer have the better instincts right now eventhough Jenkins is considered an aggressive corner.

There's no doubt about this. Greer may be the best player on the defense when healthy, and Porter is heads and shoulders above Jenkins right now.

I really think Shockey is a huge key of this offense moving the chains. Here's to hoping he can get that toe at 100% I know turf toe can be a SOB of an injury to come back from. i just hope he was held out the last 3 games as precaution only.

Payton is on record saying Shockey did not have the typical "turf toe" injury, that his injury was not as bad. There has been speculation that he actually injured his toe kicking a vending machine in the locker room during the second Atlanta game. Anyway, all reports are that he'll be 100% for the divisional game.

 

[geauxboy]

The corners playing man allows the rest of the defense to do their thing.

What I mean by that is from top to bottom, the play calling and execution are much better when the corners don't need help in coverage (except a S playing centerfield basically). That, in turn, allows:

-The DL to get to the QB since the QB can't find a receiver open
-A S to play in the box to stop the run
-The other S to read the QB in the hopes of an easy INT
-More aggressive play calling scheme

Ultimately, two solid man CBs can really make or break a D. I understand this strategy could be made for all positions, but in GWs system of DT/MLB/S, it works like a charm.

And yes, Shockey is a huge factor in the offense. We are unable to get the deep ball working well because there is no real threat at the TE position for big plays underneath. That's really not meant as a crack on Thomas. He's been quite good for us this year, but defenses aren't exactly treating him in the same way they treat Shock. Once he gets back, the WRs will have more freedom to get open deep.

 

[LSU ATC]

After watching that film of how bad we were, I got so pumped up at the thought of them playing at full strength. The problem now is that I did this too early.

 

[saints1604]

I can't see the links at work but Jenkins is getting a raw deal right now. Don't get me wrong he's struggled in most games but he did play well vs the Pats and Bucs (1st game).

He isn't the caliber of Greer or Porter right now but he has some talent at the corner position. Whether he remains a corner is yet to be seen but for a rookie in thethis league i think he has filled in as best as us fans could hope.

Just go watch higlights of Vonte Davis' ups and downs to appreciate how tough it is to be a rookie CB

EDIT

Bottom line is the Saints secondary is only as good as its front 4. look at that play to austin again...yeh Jnkins got beat by a double move but if I recall corectly didnt Romo move up out of the way of the rush? He had time adn space to throw that ball. Earlier int he year when Grerer and porter were in there was a dude int he face of the QB to make that throw.

 

[LSU ATC]

I can't see the links at work but Jenkins is getting a raw deal right now. Don't get me wrong he's struggled in most games but he did play well vs the Pats and Bucs (1st game).

He isn't the caliber of Greer or Porter right now but he has some talent at the corner position. Whether he remains a corner is yet to be seen but for a rookie in thethis league i think he has filled in as best as us fans could hope.

Just go watch higlights of Vonte Davis' ups and downs to appreciate how tough it is to be a rookie CB

EDIT

Bottom line is the Saints secondary is only as good as its front 4. look at that play to austin again...yeh Jnkins got beat by a double move but if I recall corectly didnt Romo move up out of the way of the rush? He had time adn space to throw that ball. Earlier int he year when Grerer and porter were in there was a dude int he face of the QB to make that throw.

You are thinking about a critical 4th qtr drive where Romo rolls to get out of the pass rush and then spins again on a ghost before throwing it down field.

My point is not saying that Jenkins was a bad pick or a bust, but his transition to the NFL is not automatic. Not having him go 1 on 1 with the opposing team's WR gives us our best chance at getting to the superbowl. Wanted to show fans why we haven't been as stelar on defense down the stretch and give fans something to look forward too getting both Greer and Porter on the field at the same time.

Not a lot I can get of the Bucs game, but they did give up the most yards of the season to the rookie QB, Freeman. And we gave Jason Campbell his best game of the season as well.

 

[saints1604]

You are thinking about a critical 4th qtr drive where Romo rolls to get out of the pass rush and then spins again on a ghost before throwing it down field.

My point is not saying that Jenkins was a bad pick or a bust, but his transition to the NFL is not automatic. Not having him go 1 on 1 with the opposing team's WR gives us our best chance at getting to the superbowl. Wanted to show fans why we haven't been as stelar on defense down the stretch and give fans something to look forward too getting both Greer and Porter on the field at the same time.

Not a lot I can get of the Bucs game, but they did give up the most yards of the season to the rookie QB, Freeman. And we gave Jason Campbell his best game of the season as well.

I was talking about the TD int he 1st quarter where the Saints blitzed Romo stared down Austin stepped up in the pocket as the blitz/rush went right by him with no one in his face...austin stuttered jenkins bit and sharper was late getting over o hel

it was a single high safety defense...not saying it wasn't jenkin's fault just saying it wasnt all his fault.

I was refering to the 1st bucs game and I ask where was the pressure on campbell that game?

 

[Dark Knight II]

When the dline stopped shooting the gaps against Tampa Tony Siragusa was the first person recognize the problem and said it was ridicules because the Saints dline did not need to worry about reading anything when they have only one assignment . Sharper even said that in earlier part of the season the defense treated every play like a big play and in the Tampa , Washington and Dallas games that lack of effort dropped .

The problem was not just the injured secondary personal and rookie CB it was the attitude of the whole defense because they relied on the big plays of Drew and the offense too much .

 

[LSU ATC]

I was talking about the TD int he 1st quarter where the Saints blitzed Romo stared down Austin stepped up in the pocket as the blitz/rush went right by him with no one in his face...austin stuttered jenkins bit and sharper was late getting over o hel

it was a single high safety defense...not saying it wasn't jenkin's fault just saying it wasnt all his fault.

I was refering to the 1st bucs game and I ask where was the pressure on campbell that game?

I don't understand what you are arguing here. It's the lack of a pass rush and not the loss of Porter and Greer that was the reason for the late season woes in the pass defense?

The bolded part happens all the time from a decent QB with pocket awareness. I'm sure we will see a couple of them in the playoffs.

 

[urzombiefood]

Payton is on record saying Shockey did not have the typical "turf toe" injury, that his injury was not as bad .

= we had to cut it off and he's dead now

oops wrong thread for this...

 

[SaintlyAgenda]

I broke down what I thought was the problem with the rush defense. Here The cutback lanes are killing us. It brought up some good conversation and I saw the thread with statistics about the defense with and without Greer. So, I thought I would take a look at the the highlights in the pass defense. I'm not a statistics guy, I like to break down film. I wish there was a way to really see every game in it's entirety on You Tube.

The main reason to be excited about Greer coming back is because of the play of the rookie M. Jenkins. I hate to knock on the kid, but NFL OC's know where to attack when there is a weakness in the defense. It also limits what GW can do on defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX3eYbqt3Z0

:22, Jenkins bites on the double move on the TD to Austin.

:34, He is in no man's land in the zone at the snap allowing the hot route to happen and Sharper can not get there in time.

That's the 1st qtr. 14 points that could be only 3 - 7.

1:25, Jenkins is 10 yards off the ball and is back pedaling to not get beat deep. Easy 17 yards there.

2:28, Porter reacts to the down and distance and makes a play in front of the 1st down marker to break up what should be an easy 1st. Looks like we are in a base 4-3 bringing pressure. MM and Porter are in the game, Jenkins not in.

3:14, 3rd and 7. MM 7 yards back and back pedals 5 yards allowing an easy in route for the 1st down. He should have help deep, not sure why he can not defend the sticks there.

Washington http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmeNy3tAirk - The worst defensive game of the Season IMO.

:11, Jenkins man to man up tight. Not a good jam on the WR at all. Gets beat and gets called PI on an underthrown ball. A good throw scores because the Saftey did not get over in time, but that PI will get called everytime.

:28, Our LBs have a tough time against athletic TEs and crossing routes. Good play, but to me with Vilma dropping straight back, Shanle should be responsible for the crossing route and was too late making a move to the outside on the play.

:41, come on Harper!!!

:50, SS/CB blitz from the twin Wr side? Don't know about the call, but it was a nice play to find the hot route by Campbell. (Note: Campbell is a decent QB that just never had the healthy O-line or supporting cast. He'll find a back up spot somewhere with the chance to start again in a year or two)

1:42, Jenkins bites on the double move.

1:55, Great play vs Man to Man. i wonder if Greer or Porter would have got there.

2:47, press coverage, no jam. I think that's Jenkins? Pretty good coverage on a fade route.

3:03, i think they found the hole in the zone. Either that or MM gets caught looking the the back field.

3:14, same play as the first TD. I think it's zone coverage where MM or Shanle don't get cover the crossing route flat enough. They ate our zone coverage up.

3:45, 3rd and 11. I have no idea how he got so open against Jenkins deep down the middle of the field. Double move?

I think Porter and Greer have the better instincts right now eventhough Jenkins is considered an aggressive corner. I'm really excited to see this team play with both CBs healthy again.

On Offense, as far as the Dallas and Tampa game go? Drew did not handle the pressure very well, fumbling several times. This year Drew has lost a fumble 6 times. That's more than he did in 2007 and 2008 combined. Also, we have been dropping too many passes at the tail end of the year and fumbling as well. Colston, Meachum and Devery.

Against Tampa, our WRs need to find the sticks. There were too many 4th and 1s were we had to punt.

I really think Shockey is a huge key of this offense moving the chains. Here's to hoping he can get that toe at 100% I know turf toe can be a SOB of an injury to come back from. i just hope he was held out the last 3 games as precaution only.

Thanks for taking the time to do that. Your post was wonderfully insightful.

 

[money941]

On Offense, as far as the Dallas and Tampa game go? Drew did not handle the pressure very well, fumbling several times. This year Drew has lost a fumble 6 times. That's more than he did in 2007 and 2008 combined.

Translation - Jermon Bushrod is NOT Jamaal Brown.

 

[LSU ATC]

Translation - Jermon Bushrod is NOT Jamaal Brown.

Very true. Although sacks are still one of the best in the league.

 

[saints1604]

I don't understand what you are arguing here. It's the lack of a pass rush and not the loss of Porter and Greer that was the reason for the late season woes in the pass defense?

The bolded part happens all the time from a decent QB with pocket awareness. I'm sure we will see a couple of them in the playoffs.

Im arguing that the defense at least on the scoreboard hasnt played that much different with whoever is playing CB