Payton's playcalling. (1 Viewer)

[syracuse saint]

First off, gritty win for the Saints and I'm happy that we got the W. This would have been a gloomy Saints forum otherwise.

A few notes from last night's game regarding CSPs playcalling.

His untimely switches from successfully running the ball to calling pass plays that don't go vertically, i.e. screens and swing passes killed some drives that started out successfully by calling run plays. He will bail teams who can't stop our running by calling these poorly timed screens that usually undo the positive yards and puts us behind the sticks and puts DB in obvious passing situations. He needs to make defenses prove that they can stop the run for 3 or 4 straight plays before he bails.

Once he got us rolling on the run game and he got the Chargers to sell out on the run, he went empty backfield. This is pop Warner level ignorance. We settled for a field goal because he went empty back field, spread formation with Kamara wide out on a first or second down after he had 3 straight successful runs that took us to their 22 yard line and had us in short yardage to gain. The defense simply emptied the box and said "thanks CSP. You sure made that easy for us".

Also, there was only one run designed outside the tackles, which was successful by the way. He didn't challenge the edges at all which allowed the Chargers to play entirely north and south defense the entire game.

Finally, the 2 times that he did throw downfield using multiple downfield receivers, the Chargers secondary looked lost and he didn't press that more times. At worst he could draw a DPI.

Those are some observations from a novice armchair QB, but I think he called a novice level game.

 

[Magic_Leather_Jacket]

First off, gritty win for the Saints and I'm happy that we got the W. This would have been a gloomy Saints forum otherwise.

A few notes from last night's game regarding CSPs playcalling.

His untimely switches from successfully running the ball to calling pass plays that don't go vertically, i.e. screens and swing passes killed some drives that started out successfully by calling run plays. He will bail teams who can't stop our running by calling these poorly timed screens that usually undo the positive yards and puts us behind the sticks and puts DB in obvious passing situations. He needs to make defenses prove that they can stop the run for 3 or 4 straight plays before he bails.

Once he got us rolling on the run game and he got the Chargers to sell out on the run, he went empty backfield. This is pop Warner level ignorance. We settled for a field goal because he went empty back field, spread formation with Kamara wide out on a first or second down after he had 3 straight successful runs that took us to their 22 yard line and had us in short yardage to gain. The defense simply emptied the box and said "thanks CSP. You sure made that easy for us".

Also, there was only one run designed outside the tackles, which was successful by the way. He didn't challenge the edges at all which allowed the Chargers to play entirely north and south defense the entire game.

Finally, the 2 times that he did throw downfield using multiple downfield receivers, the Chargers secondary looked lost and he didn't press that more times.

Those are some observations from a novice armchair QB, but I think he called a novice level game.

Can’t disagree. His play calling has been abysmal this season.

 

[Domeination]

The team didn't give up when they were playing poorly, which says something for their mental toughness. I'll give them that. Incredibly flat performance, especially in the first half, and I agree that Payton has not been on his A game as a play caller for most of the season.

 

[ASaintFerLife]

They came out running to start the game, I was very happy, then we got down and we defaulted to our basic instincts which is Drew throwing for the game with more runs sprinkled in here and there. I really think opposing teams have figured us out, OR we are not executing these tried and true plays as well as we should, humm.....

I really hope that in 2 weeks we get to see the 2020/2021 Saints really show up, because we will be playing for another up game on a divisional foe who will really challenge us for the div.

And our secondary, we have some of the best guys getting there junk handed to them, we have seen this before though. We have soooo much talent in the secondary it is sickening to see us not use it right.

 

[BreesHOF2024]

Yup, the first drive was the most obvious. After a good return by Callaway, we were killing them with the run for 8-10 yards a pop with Murray and Kamara. As soon as we get to the edge of FG range Payton decides to get pass happy and throw incompletions and screens for losses.

I'll never understand Payton sometimes... if something is working that well you cannot abandon it, especially on our first drive after their three and out. If you smash the rock inside at will and at home (even without fans) that's completely demoralizing and we could have had massive momentum to take over the game from the start.

Instead we get pushed out of FG range and punt

 

[Domeination]

I really hope that in 2 weeks we get to see the 2020/2021 Saints really show up, because we will be playing for another up game on a divisional foe who will really challenge us for the div.

If we lose to Teddy after letting him go (and lose the division lead in the process), that's going to be a tough pill to swallow. I agree the real Saints team hasn't show up yet. Teddy was bragging on how tough the Panthers are after their last win, saying they don't just talk about being tough but play hard nosed on the field. Hope that wasn't a veiled shot at the Saints. Our team seems to lack spirit and focus right now, including Payton. Can we turn it around in time to make a run for the playoffs?

 

[Jeff Miller]

The oline isn't playing as well as did in the past, and the receivers are abysmal, they never get sepeation, they stop on routs.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

how do people not realize that other team's adjust and you have to adjust to the adjustment?

that being said, over many seasons i think SP's most consistent playcalling issue has been when we try to bleed clock with a narrow lead early in the 4th - it seems we ALWAYS:
force a punt
get ball deep in our territory
dive hand off for 2 yards
pitch for - 2 yards
screen pass or cross for 6-8 yards
then punt it right back

i'm sure it's not ALWAYS like that, but sure seems to be

 

[crawfish2010]

Mike Thomas should be worth at least 3 more first downs a game. This will improve the offense.

 

[Outbackjack]

The oline isn't playing as well as did in the past, and the receivers are abysmal, they never get sepeation, they stop on routs.

Yet we somehow are right at the top of the league in points per game.

 

[syracuse saint]

how do people not realize that other team's adjust and you have to adjust to the adjustment?

that being said, over many seasons i think SP's most consistent playcalling issue has been when we try to bleed clock with a narrow lead early in the 4th - it seems we ALWAYS:
force a punt
get ball deep in our territory
dive hand off for 2 yards
pitch for - 2 yards
screen pass or cross for 6-8 yards
then punt it right back

i'm sure it's not ALWAYS like that, but sure seems to be

Reading this took me back to the countless heart attacks that us long timers would suffer during the Carl Smith run offenses with our Dome Patrol and 9 points on the scoreboard and a 2 point lead in the 4th quarter. Oh Lord

 

[44slayer]

Theres no doubt Paytons playcalling has been probably the worst since he became a HC.

But I also think he is handcuffed with the Brees Old Noodle Arm Situation (BONAS).

Some people think Hill needs to play less. I think he needs to play more and throw the football. If he throws, or creates the threat that he will throw, that will make him more effective as a runner. He also can fling it deep. So you can manufacture a deep game through Hill.

Regardless, Payton has to get better. The O Line needs to take over game with power in the trenches and we just need to rely on the run game and set up play action.

 

[NativeFan]

Kind of confused...

The playcalling looked exactly the same to me in the second half as it did the first. The difference was Drew couldn't execute in the first half, then comes out after the break a completely different guy. He was just "on" suddenly after starting totally flat.

The slow starts and early turnovers are just KILLING us right now. Drew had great field position so many times in the first half.

 

[WhoDatInTexas]

First off, gritty win for the Saints and I'm happy that we got the W. This would have been a gloomy Saints forum otherwise.

A few notes from last night's game regarding CSPs playcalling.

His untimely switches from successfully running the ball to calling pass plays that don't go vertically, i.e. screens and swing passes killed some drives that started out successfully by calling run plays. He will bail teams who can't stop our running by calling these poorly timed screens that usually undo the positive yards and puts us behind the sticks and puts DB in obvious passing situations. He needs to make defenses prove that they can stop the run for 3 or 4 straight plays before he bails.

Once he got us rolling on the run game and he got the Chargers to sell out on the run, he went empty backfield. This is pop Warner level ignorance. We settled for a field goal because he went empty back field, spread formation with Kamara wide out on a first or second down after he had 3 straight successful runs that took us to their 22 yard line and had us in short yardage to gain. The defense simply emptied the box and said "thanks CSP. You sure made that easy for us".

Also, there was only one run designed outside the tackles, which was successful by the way. He didn't challenge the edges at all which allowed the Chargers to play entirely north and south defense the entire game.

Finally, the 2 times that he did throw downfield using multiple downfield receivers, the Chargers secondary looked lost and he didn't press that more times. At worst he could draw a DPI.

Those are some observations from a novice armchair QB, but I think he called a novice level game.

The offense hasn't had its usual rhythm, but some of that may be attributable to the unusual offseason. No preseason games and no scrimmages will lead to more rust.

FWIW, I agree that we need to run the ball more. But to me CSP's signature calling card has always been finding exploitable matchups based on personnel groupings. It can be frustrating when we seemingly give up on runs, but sometimes he's playing the long game. Take the FB dives we ran with Burton. The first one got stuffed. The second one was successful, but close. If I recall correctly, on the second one Kamara was running toward the edge to suggest a toss out. Wait for later in the season when we see a similar situation, if CSP sees the end crashing down, there will be a toss to Kamara for a big gain. If CSP sees the DBs selling out on the run, he'll call for a pass. There was a YouTube video from a couple of years ago that tracked how one play evolved over the course of a season that was really good. Point being sometimes plays that frustrate us are setting up a haymaker later.

On the Kamara empty backfield play, I think the question is what personnel grouping did the Chargers put out in response to our personnel grouping. I don't know, but my guess would be that the prior run success led the Chargers to go heavy to beef up the run D. CSP generally likes Kamara running routes vs any LB, so he tried to get him the ball in space via a pass. Just a thought.

 

[blackadder]

First off, gritty win for the Saints and I'm happy that we got the W. This would have been a gloomy Saints forum otherwise.

A few notes from last night's game regarding CSPs playcalling.

His untimely switches from successfully running the ball to calling pass plays that don't go vertically, i.e. screens and swing passes killed some drives that started out successfully by calling run plays. He will bail teams who can't stop our running by calling these poorly timed screens that usually undo the positive yards and puts us behind the sticks and puts DB in obvious passing situations. He needs to make defenses prove that they can stop the run for 3 or 4 straight plays before he bails.

Once he got us rolling on the run game and he got the Chargers to sell out on the run, he went empty backfield. This is pop Warner level ignorance. We settled for a field goal because he went empty back field, spread formation with Kamara wide out on a first or second down after he had 3 straight successful runs that took us to their 22 yard line and had us in short yardage to gain. The defense simply emptied the box and said "thanks CSP. You sure made that easy for us".

Also, there was only one run designed outside the tackles, which was successful by the way. He didn't challenge the edges at all which allowed the Chargers to play entirely north and south defense the entire game.

Finally, the 2 times that he did throw downfield using multiple downfield receivers, the Chargers secondary looked lost and he didn't press that more times. At worst he could draw a DPI.

Those are some observations from a novice armchair QB, but I think he called a novice level game.

Been this way forever in how the run game is used and level of effort or emphasis in scheming and mixing the types of run plays, and out of what looks.

He’s always for a few games a season had these astoundingly bad ( for an NFL offensive guru) games here and there. Difference is dating back to late last season and especially the Vikings game he seems in a rut or slump.

Still. 30 pts. Just seems like harder work.