Peat reworks contract, drop salary cap hit to 8.8 million, 6.3 million paycut (1 Viewer)

When, oh when, will the Saints ever get out of cap hell??
Never, because the Saints are not in cap hell. I just don't understand why after 20 years folks don't see it for what is: a salary cap optimization strategy to put the best product on the field each and every season.

This is not happenstance. It's a deliberate cash cap accounting strategy to retain high level productive talent as long as possible while having the flexibility to adjust to current conditions.

It does have one flaw, which is the dead money that is incured when the team and the player finally parts ways. But even that can be managed using the post June 1st route.

I just never understand what fans who think we are in cap hell think we should do instead. Keep $60 million of cap space in our pocket (looking at you Chicago Bears) while other teams who spend near the cap each and every year field better teams with better talent?

The problem is folks fall into the fallacy of seeing a published NFL contract number and thinking that it's guaranteed when it's not. Just like here with Peat having a $18.8 million salary. That money was never going to be paid. It was never going to be accounted for on the cap. But right after the seasons ends, salaries like that are placed on the projected salary cap for the next season.

The Saints use 3 specific strategies to manage those projected salary dollars. If it's a player they plan to keep long term and are going to pay the money to, then they do a restructure converting that salary into a new signing bonus. That spreads the cap hit across future years, lowering the cap for this season. Players love it because it guarantees their salary for the year and they get the money in March instead of having to wait until the season to get paid. Also the team can do these unilaterally. You can see this year's laundry list: Cam, Lattimore, DD, Taysom, and the like. These simple structures are done within the confines of the existing contract. So, there's no new money, or no new years.

Strategy 2 is a contract extension, also called a maximum restructure. It changes either the money of the contract or the years on it. For both Peat and MT13 this year, this resulted in pay cuts on their previous contract money. But remember that unless the player is deserving of the money due to productivity, that's money that was never going to be paid anyway.

Door #3 is to cut the player and eat the dead money. For caps purposes, post June 1 cuts facilitate softening the cap hit in the current year.

Loomis and Khai Harley are accountants. They simply model the adjustments above for their high salaried players each year along with the pushed cap values from previous years to figure out the puzzle each off season. You can bet their spreadsheets project out into the void years for their current high value contracts to core players.

As such, there is no cap hell. It's not amazing that the Saints initial projection of the cap is $100+ million over and yet each and every year by the first day of the league year the team is in compliance. It's by design.

And none of it prevents the Saints from targeting the free agents they would like to get. Let's not forget that last year when the Saints were targeting Watson, they were supposedly in "cap hell". But just like this year with Carr, they would have navigated a path to get the player the contract needed while still managing the cap.

SFIAH
 
Never, because the Saints are not in cap hell. I just don't understand why after 20 years folks don't see it for what is: a salary cap optimization strategy to put the best product on the field each and every season.

This is not happenstance. It's a deliberate cash cap accounting strategy to retain high level productive talent as long as possible while having the flexibility to adjust to current conditions.

It does have one flaw, which is the dead money that is incured when the team and the player finally parts ways. But even that can be managed using the post June 1st route.

I just never understand what fans who think we are in cap hell think we should do instead. Keep $60 million of cap space in our pocket (looking at you Chicago Bears) while other teams who spend near the cap each and every year field better teams with better talent?

The problem is folks fall into the fallacy of seeing a published NFL contract number and thinking that it's guaranteed when it's not. Just like here with Peat having a $18.8 million salary. That money was never going to be paid. It was never going to be accounted for on the cap. But right after the seasons ends, salaries like that are placed on the projected salary cap for the next season.

The Saints use 3 specific strategies to manage those projected salary dollars. If it's a player they plan to keep long term and are going to pay the money to, then they do a restructure converting that salary into a new signing bonus. That spreads the cap hit across future years, lowering the cap for this season. Players love it because it guarantees their salary for the year and they get the money in March instead of having to wait until the season to get paid. Also the team can do these unilaterally. You can see this year's laundry list: Cam, Lattimore, DD, Taysom, and the like. These simple structures are done within the confines of the existing contract. So, there's no new money, or no new years.

Strategy 2 is a contract extension, also called a maximum restructure. It changes either the money of the contract or the years on it. For both Peat and MT13 this year, this resulted in pay cuts on their previous contract money. But remember that unless the player is deserving of the money due to productivity, that's money that was never going to be paid anyway.

Door #3 is to cut the player and eat the dead money. For caps purposes, post June 1 cuts facilitate softening the cap hit in the current year.

Loomis and Khai Harley are accountants. They simply model the adjustments above for their high salaried players each year along with the pushed cap values from previous years to figure out the puzzle each off season. You can bet their spreadsheets project out into the void years for their current high value contracts to core players.

As such, there is no cap hell. It's not amazing that the Saints initial projection of the cap is $100+ million over and yet each and every year by the first day of the league year the team is in compliance. It's by design.

And none of it prevents the Saints from targeting the free agents they would like to get. Let's not forget that last year when the Saints were targeting Watson, they were supposedly in "cap hell". But just like this year with Carr, they would have navigated a path to get the player the contract needed while still managing the cap.

SFIAH
I was just going to say that. ;) :rolleyes:
 
I disagree, before he started getting injured on the regular he was good and getting better. I actually think he was at his best in 2017, before his string of 3 consecutive ProBowls.....the talent was there, just injuries.....

One of the top run blockers in the game.

He is a bit of a clutz sometimes and gets made to look like a fool in pass pro every once in a while, and of course the injuries are frustrating, but the guy really is a good player when he’s out there and healthy.

That being said, I still wish we didn’t invest what we did into him. Too injury prone.
 
It does have one flaw, which is the dead money that is incured when the team and the player finally parts ways. But even that can be managed using the post June 1st route.
That June 1 strategy doesn’t work when you restructure a guy in the last year of his deal that has void years left. We have $47m of dead money scheduled for Jordan, Peat, and Winston when their contracts void next year. Make it at least $60m including Thomas if he doesn’t finish the season, because it will be hard to justify re-upping him at that point. I know it was said here that the Bucs were tanking for absorbing a $35m dead money hit for Brady this year.

The rest of our recent strategy depends on doubling down on our older contracts because we push out cap hits way above any reasonable estimate of cap growth. We’ll have to do the restructuring game again next year when we are $70m or so over the cap, when all the old players are a year older and hopefully haven’t suffered any career altering injuries or performance declines that would make doubling down a bad move.

The real flaw of our strategy is just that, reduced flexibility to manage our existing roster. So far we can figure out how to squeeze guys in but can’t cut players out. You can already look at 2024 and see there isn’t a single player we can cut to get meaningful cap savings towards that $70m before the start of the league year. We have to hope that no one is on the decline and/or hampered by injury, because we need to restructure players just to get to even.

That’s the difference between us and 30 other teams, including playoff teams and Super Bowl champions. They’re in a position where they can either cut players, let players walk, or restructure players to make cap room. To create any meaningful cap space, we can only use option C. Options have value, but we don’t value options. The restructures and void year accelerations will look less appealing as our roster declines.
 
Never, because the Saints are not in cap hell. I just don't understand why after 20 years folks don't see it for what is: a salary cap optimization strategy to put the best product on the field each and every season.

This is not happenstance. It's a deliberate cash cap accounting strategy to retain high level productive talent as long as possible while having the flexibility to adjust to current conditions.

It does have one flaw, which is the dead money that is incured when the team and the player finally parts ways. But even that can be managed using the post June 1st route.

I just never understand what fans who think we are in cap hell think we should do instead. Keep $60 million of cap space in our pocket (looking at you Chicago Bears) while other teams who spend near the cap each and every year field better teams with better talent?

The problem is folks fall into the fallacy of seeing a published NFL contract number and thinking that it's guaranteed when it's not. Just like here with Peat having a $18.8 million salary. That money was never going to be paid. It was never going to be accounted for on the cap. But right after the seasons ends, salaries like that are placed on the projected salary cap for the next season.

The Saints use 3 specific strategies to manage those projected salary dollars. If it's a player they plan to keep long term and are going to pay the money to, then they do a restructure converting that salary into a new signing bonus. That spreads the cap hit across future years, lowering the cap for this season. Players love it because it guarantees their salary for the year and they get the money in March instead of having to wait until the season to get paid. Also the team can do these unilaterally. You can see this year's laundry list: Cam, Lattimore, DD, Taysom, and the like. These simple structures are done within the confines of the existing contract. So, there's no new money, or no new years.

Strategy 2 is a contract extension, also called a maximum restructure. It changes either the money of the contract or the years on it. For both Peat and MT13 this year, this resulted in pay cuts on their previous contract money. But remember that unless the player is deserving of the money due to productivity, that's money that was never going to be paid anyway.

Door #3 is to cut the player and eat the dead money. For caps purposes, post June 1 cuts facilitate softening the cap hit in the current year.

Loomis and Khai Harley are accountants. They simply model the adjustments above for their high salaried players each year along with the pushed cap values from previous years to figure out the puzzle each off season. You can bet their spreadsheets project out into the void years for their current high value contracts to core players.

As such, there is no cap hell. It's not amazing that the Saints initial projection of the cap is $100+ million over and yet each and every year by the first day of the league year the team is in compliance. It's by design.

And none of it prevents the Saints from targeting the free agents they would like to get. Let's not forget that last year when the Saints were targeting Watson, they were supposedly in "cap hell". But just like this year with Carr, they would have navigated a path to get the player the contract needed while still managing the cap.

SFIAH
Yeah good point. I always see the 100+ million over the cap number and instinctively **** myself :hihi:
 
I've always been fascinated by these contract reworkings. Like, how do you approach the player to get what you want (them to take a paycut) while keeping them on the team and happy? "Hey Andrus, totally love what you're doing here, we totally want you to stay and start for us.....but here's the thing, remember that giant contract we gave you? We're gonna need you to give some of that back....mmmmmkay?"

Would love to be in the room for one of these just to gauge the awkwardness.
 
I really like the Peat move. When he plays well, he looks great, when he doesn't...he doesn't. Getting him at a much lower number and with a fire under him, might help out.

Saints are freeing up more and more cap space. As strange as it seems, they may have LOTS of room to make a splash in free agency. I know Over the Cap is often late to the party, but what is the Saints Cap Space today? OTC says they have over $18 million in space.


Does anybody think Adam Thielen would be a possible fit? One of the factors here is he WOULD NOT count in the Como Pick formula because he was released.

In 2022 he led the Vikings in targets with 107 and caught 70 passes for 716 yards and six touchdowns. He is a Red Zone machine. I think he would work well on the Saints and it would keep him out of Carolina. he is a declining player, no doubt, but he has not signed with anybody yet. this is a Loomis type of deal. Would you rather Jarvis Landry or Adam Thielen?
 
I really like the Peat move. When he plays well, he looks great, when he doesn't...he doesn't. Getting him at a much lower number and with a fire under him, might help out.

Saints are freeing up more and more cap space. As strange as it seems, they may have LOTS of room to make a splash in free agency. I know Over the Cap is often late to the party, but what is the Saints Cap Space today? OTC says they have over $18 million in space.


Does anybody think Adam Thielen would be a possible fit? One of the factors here is he WOULD NOT count in the Como Pick formula because he was released.

In 2022 he led the Vikings in targets with 107 and caught 70 passes for 716 yards and six touchdowns. He is a Red Zone machine. I think he would work well on the Saints and it would keep him out of Carolina. he is a declining player, no doubt, but he has not signed with anybody yet. this is a Loomis type of deal. Would you rather Jarvis Landry or Adam Thielen?
I’d take Adam. Landry was solid before being injured but Thielen would be sweet because there’s a chance he can make some awesome plays to help knock the Vikings out of the playoffs as a saints wr3 And I’m here for it.
 
I'd be perfectly OK with drafting a guard at 29. Or any other spot in rd 1 if they're good enough. When we were at our best the O Line was the best in the league. If any fan base should know what a great O line can do for your O it should be us. Or look at how dominant our D is when the opposing QB is under heavy pressure. (like we've been for a few years now)

Also I'm concerned that both our best linemen, McCoy and Ram have had health issues lately, There are lots of Ol free agents available too.
i think Drew made the O-line great, with other qbs as we have seen they are just merely good. I think Carr will help out the line. from what i have noticed he doesn't get sacked much and gets rid of the ball quickly
 
We’ve been needing a remodel of the left side for a while.

Peat and Armstead were good for missing 12-15 games a year between them.

Penning is one piece, and though he hasn’t had a great start to his career health wise, it’s too early to label him injury prone at this point.
How many games did Penning miss?
 

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