People here should realize that Brady is the GOAT (1 Viewer)

Drew has been more amazing then selfish but sometimes that's just enough to keep you from winning.
 
I agree. Brees had every right. And I just don’t see how we wasted anything. Who did we deprive of a great Super Bowl run? Taysom? Winston? No. Brees was still our best chance.
it didn’t work. Move on.

i agree with this. MT, Kamara, Cam, etc still have time to win a SB with New Orleans. Just got to retool the QB position.
 
Why the best should be one.
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes .. etc all are great players. They are the best currently.
 
Theres just no way to create an argument anymore - the only argument is #2. Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc. Drew will always be our guy. Wouldnt have wanted anyone else here. But, Brady is the GOAT.

That being said, Mahomes is still the best QB Ive ever seen. He is everything the media wants so badly for Aaron Rodgers to be. He will eventually push Brady in both stats and rings if he stays healthy.,

14 Conf championships, 10 Super Bowls, 6 SB wins (could be 7 in 2 weeks) and next season will own every major passing record. There just isnt an argument to be made anymore.
 
I will begrudgingly admit that the Brady boy is the Goat (esp since the NFL will never let him lose next week, the fix is in)- BUT no one can say that Brees isnt the 2nd best of all time.. not a Manning, or Rodgers, or anyone who’s name isnt Drew Brees.. Dan Marino might have a case if he had even one ring, but DB it is.

ETA i hate the idea of “2nd place”

Based on accomplishments, yes, you've gotta give it to him. And in the moment that mattered most for that argument (IMO), round 3 against the Bucs, TB12 performed and DB9 did not. One game should not redefine an entire career, but that one hurt DB9 a LOT. Want proof? Imagine a world where the Saints won last week against the Bucs & TB12, sweeping them 3 times in 1 season. DB9 would've moved to 6-2 against TB12 teams and would've been discussed as TBs "kryptonite". Possibly open up discussions regarding their favorably comparative stats and "what if their careers had been flip-flopped on opposite teams." DB9 would obviously have AT LEAST 6 SBS, but what would TB12 have, given some of those horrendous Saints defenses. You know....the ones where the gap between the #32 ranked Saints and #31 was greater than the gap between #31 and #1? When we lost that game, those theoretical discussions were also lost. Now, those discussions are about as likely as me being born richer & better looking.

With all that said, I still view DB9 as the GOAT. And here's why: I see football as the ultimate team sport, and I see Lombardis as the ultimate TEAM trophy. QBs are probably the most important player on their team, certainly responsible for more than 1/22 of the team's success, but NFL history is littered with all-time great QBs who never won a SB (Jim Kelly & Dan Marino, for starters), as well as also-rans with SB victories (T. Dilfer, B. Johnson, D. Williams, & others). Are the 2nd group of QBs better than the first group? I don't think ANYONE would be willing to defend that argument.

So why is the 1st group considered great? Because they elevated the play of the players around them! There presence made average players into good players; and good players into great ones. When TB12 had a "sub-par" season, it was because TB12 "couldn't do it by himself" and the Pats needed fresh infusions of talent. TB12's success with the Bucs only reinforces that narrative, considered the talent on that team before he arrived. OTOH, when players left the Saints roster for other teams (especially offensive players), they were viewed as "products of the system, benefitting from having played with Brees." Jimmy Graham is a perfect example....Superstar with DB9....also-ran with Seahawks & Packers. Why does TB12 need sufficient talent around him to be successful, while those around DB9 are successful BECAUSE of him? That argument leads me to this conclusion...

For me, it isn't about the Lombardis (a team award) or MVPs (a popularity vote). It's about elevating the players around you. And DB9 is in the same air as Marino. Does anyone believe the Dolphins of the 80s or 90s were playoff contenders without Marino? For those not old enough to know, does anyone think the Saints were better than a 7-9 or 9-7 teams over the past 16 years without DB9? We'll never know for certain, but I think that NO ONE has done more, with less, for as long as DB9. That's why he's my GOAT....and probably always will be?!
 
Brady is going to his 10th Super bowl as a starting QB. That's a stat not too many QB's have. At his age, he's also not afraid to throw the ball down the field and his coach let's him run the game. That was evident yesterday. Allot of folks bash his character but you can't deny his ability to lead a offense.
 
I ask this question, is Brady the GOAT or is he Bill Russell? Russell won 11 NBA championships in 13 years as a vital cog in a franchise with great coach, great players around him and easy path to NBA finals every year. Not one pro bowl QB in the rest of the AFC East for Brady’s entire career. Total incompetency of Bills, Jets, and Dolphins allowed for best record in AFC year after year giving Pats byes, the first round game against weakest playoff team, then home field in AFC championship. Also, Belichick’s coaching and Pats defense oftentimes bailed him out of bad performances in playoffs and Super Bowls. Just imagine Marino, Elway, Montana, Rodgers or Brees in that AFC East for 20 years with those advantages.
 
Up until yesterday I didn’t want to give Brady his flowers. I didn’t want to proclaim him as the GOAT. But all offseason and during the season it was, “he can’t win without Bill.” Well he has, and he did, and he is one game away from winning his 7th Super Bow (pulling for the Chiefs and Baby GOAT Mahomes in that one). Brady is the GOAT, he has the rings, he will soon have the stats, and after that there really isn’t anything to debate.

People say that he has gotten lucky, sure he has. Tuck Rule, Vinateri kicks, etc., but you don’t luck your way into 10 Super Bowls without some amazing play. The guy hasn’t been the sole reason he has won so much (this is a team game after all), but he has been a key component and a constant through it all.

So yes, there isn’t much of a debate. The former Wolverine is the GOAT.
 
I ask this question, is Brady the GOAT or is he Bill Russell? Russell won 11 NBA championships in 13 years as a vital cog in a franchise with great coach, great players around him and easy path to NBA finals every year. Not one pro bowl QB in the rest of the AFC East for Brady’s entire career. Total incompetency of Bills, Jets, and Dolphins allowed for best record in AFC year after year giving Pats byes, the first round game against weakest playoff team, then home field in AFC championship. Also, Belichick’s coaching and Pats defense oftentimes bailed him out of bad performances in playoffs and Super Bowls. Just imagine Marino, Elway, Montana, Rodgers or Brees in that AFC East for 20 years with those advantages.
That argument of the AFC east went out the window this year considering he just whipped up on the NFC. There is no consensus in the NBA on the goat but Russell is in the discussion. I'm not a Brady fan but he is the best QB we've seen so far.
 
Based on accomplishments, yes, you've gotta give it to him. And in the moment that mattered most for that argument (IMO), round 3 against the Bucs, TB12 performed and DB9 did not. One game should not redefine an entire career, but that one hurt DB9 a LOT. Want proof? Imagine a world where the Saints won last week against the Bucs & TB12, sweeping them 3 times in 1 season. DB9 would've moved to 6-2 against TB12 teams and would've been discussed as TBs "kryptonite". Possibly open up discussions regarding their favorably comparative stats and "what if their careers had been flip-flopped on opposite teams." DB9 would obviously have AT LEAST 6 SBS, but what would TB12 have, given some of those horrendous Saints defenses. You know....the ones where the gap between the #32 ranked Saints and #31 was greater than the gap between #31 and #1? When we lost that game, those theoretical discussions were also lost. Now, those discussions are about as likely as me being born richer & better looking.

With all that said, I still view DB9 as the GOAT. And here's why: I see football as the ultimate team sport, and I see Lombardis as the ultimate TEAM trophy. QBs are probably the most important player on their team, certainly responsible for more than 1/22 of the team's success, but NFL history is littered with all-time great QBs who never won a SB (Jim Kelly & Dan Marino, for starters), as well as also-rans with SB victories (T. Dilfer, B. Johnson, D. Williams, & others). Are the 2nd group of QBs better than the first group? I don't think ANYONE would be willing to defend that argument.

So why is the 1st group considered great? Because they elevated the play of the players around them! There presence made average players into good players; and good players into great ones. When TB12 had a "sub-par" season, it was because TB12 "couldn't do it by himself" and the Pats needed fresh infusions of talent. TB12's success with the Bucs only reinforces that narrative, considered the talent on that team before he arrived. OTOH, when players left the Saints roster for other teams (especially offensive players), they were viewed as "products of the system, benefitting from having played with Brees." Jimmy Graham is a perfect example....Superstar with DB9....also-ran with Seahawks & Packers. Why does TB12 need sufficient talent around him to be successful, while those around DB9 are successful BECAUSE of him? That argument leads me to this conclusion...

For me, it isn't about the Lombardis (a team award) or MVPs (a popularity vote). It's about elevating the players around you. And DB9 is in the same air as Marino. Does anyone believe the Dolphins of the 80s or 90s were playoff contenders without Marino? For those not old enough to know, does anyone think the Saints were better than a 7-9 or 9-7 teams over the past 16 years without DB9? We'll never know for certain, but I think that NO ONE has done more, with less, for as long as DB9. That's why he's my GOAT....and probably always will be?!

It was a nice try. But you just cant get past the totality of it. 4-5 years ago, there was some debate - Maybe Brees could win a few more and then theres an argument. But at this point, the stats, rings, playoff wins - its all in Bradys corner.

Brady will own all the passing records. You can try all you want, but an NFL QB is more directly responsible (and blamed/glorified) for success than any single position of any team sport on earth. It will always be about wins and losses for a QB. For a RB, no. WR, no. But a QB, absolutely. Some simple common sense tells you that Dilfer and Hostetler arent in this conversation.

Brady has played in 14 conference championship games, 10 Super Bowls, and won 6, potentially 7. Brady has TWICE as many playoff wins as Joe Montana, who was pretty routinely considered the best postseason QB of all time. Brady has 33 playoff wins, to Brees' 9. Brees has played in 3 Conf championship games, 1 Super Bowl, and won 1. The vastness of that gap is not even comparable.

Brady played in a weak division. Brees played indoors without weather being a factor.

There were years where the talent of the Patriots was average at best. Its not like Brady has played with all world talent. He had Gronk, who was hurt often, and Randy Moss a few years. But outside of those 2, its not like the Patriots had a boatload of talent. He has made it work with Kevin Faulk, Amendola. Edelman, and a bunch of running backs and WRs you probably cant even name. Brady had the same ability as Brees to maximize the talent, or lack thereof, of the players around him. They both had that ability. This Bucs team has far more offensive talent than Brady ever had in NE, with the exception of maybe the 17-0 Pats - that didnt win the SB.
 
Yes. Clearly Brady could have led the Bucs to the Super Bowl even without them bringing in a top TE, a top receiver, a good RB to add to their pretty stacked lineup. They also have the best refs money can buy.

I could maybe be convinced that Brady is the SBOAT. Second Best of All Time. Goat? Nope.
some i agree with, but refs didn't cost us the divisional around against the bucs...we lost that game on our own
 
Of course Brady is the GOAT... The only place in the universe that would contest that - Is right here. I mean, I get it... I love Brees to... Not sure what the issue is, and why we can't love Drew and still be honest... I mean, Drew is probably the 2nd GOAT... but if we are being honest - he's a distant 2nd to Brady and it's not close.
 

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