Performance Based Value: New Orleans Saints (1 Viewer)

I agree that spagnuolo didn't use the players in the best way but can you really put ALL on him? Worst defense ever, yeah not fault of the players, nah, only spagnuolo's. C'mon please. A good player has some flaws and some preferences, does better in a scheme and worse in another, but doesn't turn to **** because of a scheme change and all-pro in another (and we haven't had all-pros for sure).
 
Love thier write up on PT. Just does everything right.

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While you make a good argument, and one that I would generally make myself, I think you have to take the circumstances into consideration....

Maybe somewhere in the middle... Evaluate them on their body of work and devalue 2012 performance with circumstances in mind.... Some guys were bad in 10 and 11 as well...

Agreed. However, sometimes you have to play through adversity and clearly the defense didn't do a good job of that. It's a two sided argument, but if some players don't step up regardless of circumstance, then they shouldn't be granted a pass.
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/03/performance-based-value-new-orleans-saints/

Not surprisingly players like smith, harper, vilma, jenkins, shanle were not worth even a million dollars per year. Defensively johnson, gallette and hicks were good value tho, at least there's a sort of a silver lining.

Thoughts?

That is because they didn't play NFL caliber football and were only suited to ride the pine yet were starters. Any wonder we were the worst ever? I think we can build around those that showed value and it was obvious to anyone that cared to see that people were playing, and kept, based more upon salary and draft status than effectiveness.
 
While you make a good argument, and one that I would generally make myself, I think you have to take the circumstances into consideration....

Maybe somewhere in the middle... Evaluate them on their body of work and devalue 2012 performance with circumstances in mind.... Some guys were bad in 10 and 11 as well...

Rational Thinking! Be very careful around here. You may get tarred and feathered.
 
While you make a good argument, and one that I would generally make myself, I think you have to take the circumstances into consideration....

Maybe somewhere in the middle... Evaluate them on their body of work and devalue 2012 performance with circumstances in mind.... Some guys were bad in 10 and 11 as well...


OK, you said it better than i did. I wouldn't completely ignore 2012, but I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it either.

Based on 2012 PFF stats there were over 103 MLB's better than Curtis Lofton. Does anyone actually think there are actually 103 MLB's in the league better than Curtis Lofton?

There were also over 150 CB's better than Jabari Greer. I'm not buying that at all.
 
OK, you said it better than i did. I wouldn't completely ignore 2012, but I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it either.

Based on 2012 PFF stats there were over 103 MLB's better than Curtis Lofton. Does anyone actually think there are actually 103 MLB's in the league better than Curtis Lofton?

There were also over 150 CB's better than Jabari Greer. I'm not buying that at all.

Greer had a bad year. He even admitted (joking kinda in an interview) that if he didn't make a play, then he would have expected himself to be on the waiver wire. Players don't just say that for ***** and giggles. I do agree that Lofton was not as bad as they made him out to be.
 
The only people that can use 2012 as an excuse is Harper and our CB's. Our linebackers weren't doing anything extraordinarily different and I spent all last offseason reading how Smith and Ellis were going to do great under Spags scheme despite vast mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Not everyone deserves a pass, there has to be some accountability. Even the Rams in all their horrid lack of talent were able to field a better defense than ours. Can't blame it all on Spags.

This. Nobody is more dissappointing than Ellis. He was damn near trashing GW. Raved about how productive he'd be in Spags scheme. Smith was about as expected....guy has been not good for years now i could care less what scheme he is in.

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OK, you said it better than i did. I wouldn't completely ignore 2012, but I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it either.

Based on 2012 PFF stats there were over 103 MLB's better than Curtis Lofton. Does anyone actually think there are actually 103 MLB's in the league better than Curtis Lofton?

There were also over 150 CB's better than Jabari Greer. I'm not buying that at all.

Last year using the stats they use there were 113 linebackers or 43 inside linebackers better than him. In the years before that he was pretty consistently in the 20's. Last year he missed way too many tackles, had problems in coverage, and couldn't shed a block. Those problems do not add up to a good middle linebacker, hence his putrid rating. He is 1 that could definitely help us out next year.
 
Why? If I underperformed for a year (season), I wouldn't expect my boss to ignore my performance. These guys are getting paid to do a job well and if they don't, then that must be factored in. These guys collectively were the worst defense in history. That speaks volumes. Just my opinion.

If I underperform for a year at a regional office that's a complete dumpster fire with management ranging from AWOL to incompetent, I'd hope the Big Boss would take my previous years into account.
 
What 2012 told me was that we have a lot of situational players and no *STARS* . While we do have some promising players the majority will have to be game planned for in order to cover up their deficiencies. We need to get out of the habit of using round pegs in square holes because they do not fit the conventional schemes. I know we have what we have and might as well keep working with less then needed because of their contracts or such. That thinking has to end, we need to start drafting players that play the spot we need help in and not hoping they can make a great player in other positions. How many betweeners do we need? No more then one or two if they are star players or difference makers.

We have a lot of work ahead if we want to get better and it will have to start by releasing some players and upgrading at certain positions.

We have a chance to move in the right direction during the FA period and draft. We need to spend the right dollars in the best place to produce results. Signing a player like Bushrod to a high value contract at this point would not be smart. We can get a guy in the draft that would cost at least 50% less per year then we will have to pay Bushrod that money is better being used for an impact player for our defense.

It is a shame that for the last three years we have been changing DT's trying to get a push up the middle when all along our main problem was the position we refused to replace (Ellis). If they did not produce for us in 2012 they need to walk. Not be moved to another position in hops of them getting better.



The Saints lack someone who can EVALUATE the Defensive Talent!

Been like that from the getgo of the Payton era!

They keep doing the SAME THING and yet expecting DIFF RESULTS!

Ain't Gonna Happen!

Gotta bring in someone who can evaluate Defensive Talent!

.
 
The Saints lack someone who can EVALUATE the Defensive Talent!

Been like that from the getgo of the Payton era!

They keep doing the SAME THING and yet expecting DIFF RESULTS!

Ain't Gonna Happen!

Gotta bring in someone who can evaluate Defensive Talent!

.
It's so obvious to us, why isn't to them. Whether we draft low or high, most struggle to be average.
 
yep, I pretty much agree with pro football focus, had our better players listed and the over paid low production bunch.
 
too much buddy buddy, nepotism, good ole boy and loyalty in the front office....

aside from payton's offensive picks which have thrived b/c of the brilliant scheme mostly, we have horrific scouts, one of which is joe vitts son.

these gives are absolutely dumpster fire third trimester abortion bad in the last 3 drafts...
 

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