Petraeus works to halt foreign fighters. (1 Viewer)

[mister pc]

Or a determined Israel?

Im not really pro-Israel and I dont support most of their military action, but I can see how their nukes are necessary. They are surrounded by hostile countries and vastly outnumbered. If any country in the world needs a nuclear deterrent, it would be Israel.

 

[SaintJ]

Im not really pro-Israel and I dont support most of their military action, but I can see how their nukes are necessary. They are surrounded by hostile countries and vastly outnumbered. If any country in the world needs a nuclear deterrent, it would be Israel.

1. I, on the other hand, am generally pro-Israel. But it needed to be said.

2. I am an oil-rich nation. I border on the east with nuclear Pakistan. Russia is a little over 100 miles from my northern border through Azerbaijan. My unstable neighbor Iraq attacked me in massive force just one generation ago to steal my oil fields. Most Arab countries don't like me too much because we are on a different side of the huge schism in Islam. And I have no justification whatsoever for a nuclear deterrent?

 

[blackadder]

Im not really pro-Israel and I dont support most of their military action, but I can see how their nukes are necessary. They are surrounded by hostile countries and vastly outnumbered.

By camels and bedouins???

 

[mister pc]

I am an oil-rich nation. I border on the east with nuclear Pakistan. Russia is a little over 100 miles from my northern border through Azerbaijan. My unstable neighbor Iraq attacked me in massive force just one generation ago to steal my oil fields. Most Arab countries don't like me too much because we are on a different side of the huge schism in Islam. And I have no justification whatsoever for a nuclear deterrent?

There is the double standard. Iran wants to defend itself against the threat of Israel and America in addition to the other enemies you named. Obtaining nukes is the ultimate way to strengthen the country's defenses. And even though they may have reason for wanting nukes, I still dont think we can let them have their way. They are much too enthusiastic about wiping out other countries and killing civilians to be allowed nuclear weapons (with which they could achieve these goals).

By camels and bedouins???

and Muslims.

 

[Utah Saints]

By camels and bedouins???

Watching you make every excuse in the book for why Iran and Hamas really dont mean what they say, or couldnt possibly ever wage nuclear war, or conventional war, despite making violent, warlike statements, over and over, supporting terrorism, and chanting things like Death To America, then excusing these activties when they happen by claiming they are the result of western 'meddling'; while simultanesouly attributing every action the West takes to dark motives, conspiracies, and Zionist shadow governments, is highly entertaining.

 

[blackadder]

Watching you make every excuse in the book for why Iran and Hamas really dont mean what they say, or couldnt possibly ever wage nuclear war, or conventional war, despite making violent, warlike statements, over and over, supporting terrorism, and chanting things like Death To America, then excusing these activties when they happen by claiming they are the result of western 'meddling'; while simultanesouly attributing every action the West takes to dark motives, conspiracies, and Zionist shadow governments, is highly entertaining.

No, the west have never meddled. It's all delusion. None of it ever happened.

These people are just motivated by just plain hatred and envy. No sir, no legitimate grievances or security concerns whatsoever.

Glad to be of service!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

Your interpretations of what I've said are wrong.

 

[varanook]

Watching you make every excuse in the book for why Iran and Hamas really dont mean what they say, or couldnt possibly ever wage nuclear war, or conventional war, despite making violent, warlike statements, over and over, supporting terrorism, and chanting things like Death To America, then excusing these activties when they happen by claiming they are the result of western 'meddling'; while simultanesouly attributing every action the West takes to dark motives, conspiracies, and Zionist shadow governments, is highly entertaining.

I would put the big red x in there if I knew how.

The british meddled before us so what I list below is probably less than what they have done.

We had a proxy war with the soviets in afghanistan I am pretty sure.

We put the Shah in power in Iran.

We unquestioningly support Israel when they have their own extremists.

We have invaded Iraq for what?

I am sure others can give more detailed knowledge though.

 

[blackadder]

I would put the big red x in there if I knew how.

The british meddled before us so what I list below is probably less than what they have done.

We had a proxy war with the soviets in afghanistan I am pretty sure.

We put the Shah in power in Iran.

We unquestioningly support Israel when they have their own extremists.

We have invaded Iraq for what?

I am sure others can give more detailed knowledge though.

The sound effect of the "wrong answer" buzzer would also be good.

 

[CitySaint]

Iran has had an expansionist/imperialistic philosophy since the mid-70's. The whole reason for the Iraq/Iran war was there bold claims to Iraqi turf over and over again. They have been in Iraq longer than I've been alive inciting dissension and conjuring up ideas of rebellion against the former Iraqi gov under Sadaam. America going to war with Iraq was probably th best thing for Iran. Now Iraq is there for the taking all they have to do is wait us out, and then have there very own Monroe Doctrine established.

 

[blackadder]

Iran has had an expansionist/imperialistic philosophy since the mid-70's. The whole reason for the Iraq/Iran war was there bold claims to Iraqi turf over and over again. They have been in Iraq longer than I've been alive inciting dissension and conjuring up ideas of rebellion against the former Iraqi gov under Sadaam. America going to war with Iraq was probably th best thing for Iran. Now Iraq is there for the taking all they have to do is wait us out, and then have there very own Monroe Doctrine established.

There were claims and counter claims on each side, which looks an awful lot like an ongoing Arab/Persian and Sunni/Shia rivalry, not some imperialistic philosophy aimed at "world domination."

The question then is what is America's interest in getting in the middle of the Arab/Persian/Sunni/Shia train wreck?

 

[SaintJ]

There were claims and counter claims on each side, which looks an awful lot like an ongoing Arab/Persian and Sunni/Shia rivalry, not some imperialistic philosophy aimed at "world domination."

The question then is what is America's interest in getting in the middle of the Arab/Persian/Sunni/Shia train wreck?

No strong unifying forces in charge, easier to deal with smaller, weaker powers.

 

[CitySaint]

On Maliki's “government” and Iran.

We do not recognize this puppet government issued from the occupation and we don’t deal with it. The Maliki government is overtly pro-American and covertly pro-Iran. Hence Ahmadinejad's visit to Iraq was no surprise to us. We have said it before and will repeat it, this is a dual occupation (American-Iranian).

There is an imperial convergence of interests between Iran and the US in Iraq and in Afghanistan. There is an Iranian imperialist design under the American imperialist design.

Iran opportunistically used its geographical proximity and its religious influence over the Shiites of Iraq to fulfill its imperialistic project – that of occupying Iraq. Iran in 8 years of war did not manage to secure anything in Iraq, but under the American banner it managed to achieve what it could not achieve in 8 years of bloody war.
The real victor in Iraq is Iran. Iran is after all a neighbor.

Dr.I.Al-Shammari,(head of the Islamic Army of Iraq/IAI) aired on Arabic, Al-Jazeerah TV on the 9th of April 2008

Iran in my opinion has more leverage than any other group in Iraq, including American influence. Iran wants to expand its power beyond its borders and solidify the regional dominance it currentl has.

 

[BullDawg]

I was hinting that if we weren't on some hair brained scheme in Iraq that this soldier with 5 kids would not have died needlessly.
When discussing things like this I think "boots on the ground" has no business being brought into the picture. It may be sobering but it doesn't do much in an argument imo.

In fact, it should be so sobering to people that changes are made to stop things like that from happening.

Cue...But we need a big huge military presence worldwide for our protection supporters.
Or the people who just say-go America, Kick some ***.

He didn't die needlessly. To imply he did is an insult to he and his family. This was his 4th combat tour (2nd in Iraq). I'm sure he believed in what he was doing. The pictures I saw of him playing with Iraqi children does much to confirm this belief.

But of course we shouldn't look at this from the "boots on the ground" point of view. That would be much too close to the action to discern anything factual. The view from the comfort of the recliner is so much more accurate.

Iran good.

US bad.

Roger that.

BD out.

 

[varanook]

He didn't die needlessly. To imply he did is an insult to he and his family. This was his 4th combat tour (2nd in Iraq). I'm sure he believed in what he was doing. The pictures I saw of him playing with Iraqi children does much to confirm this belief.

But of course we shouldn't look at this from the "boots on the ground" point of view. That would be much too close to the action to discern anything factual. The view from the comfort of the recliner is so much more accurate.

Iran good.

US bad.

Roger that.

BD out.

I could be reading more than there is but I expected a response like this.

I wasn't discussing the US bad/Iran good thing at all. You sound like the people who throw around the "you hate America" line if you don't agree with the war.

I also can understand that your point of view would be vehemently pro soldier. Mine is too. In , fact, mine is so pro-soldier that I think it is an amazing waste of life to be there and our soldiers have no business there.

We should not look at it from a boots on the ground point of view because a soldier has little choice in the matter. It skews things too much and does not anyone to reason through a crappy situation that has nothing to do with the war on terror or national defense.

It is possible to be pro-soldier but not pro-war.

 

[varanook]

He didn't die needlessly.

Unfortunately we just have to agree to disagree I guess.

I think all the deaths there both Iraqi and American have been needless since this shenanigan started.