PFF Saints Depth Chart Paints a Clear, Glaring Need (1 Viewer)

Gotta remember that PFF not only doesn't count how crucial the timing of plays are, but they also don't account for who you're defending. Allowing a receiving TD to Zach Line is graded the same as allowing Mike Thomas to score. Anoyher thing is they are all relative only to their own position. Comparing the overall grade of a WR and CB wouldn't not equate at all.

Imo, remembering to consider factors like those, I do find PFF very useful, although far from perfect.

Edit:
Also remember that PFF is a tool/stat, no different than Tackles, Sacks, and Passer Rating. No one number can tell you the full story. PFF is just more information to consider, and I don't see how that can be bad.

This isn't directed at you Saint Spud. Just see a lot of PFF bashing on the board, and had the urge to put in my 2 cents.

I hear you. I’m not trying to hammer them.

But I think their grading is often accepted as an accurate reflection of a player’s true ability as opposed to a tool or stat, as you mentioned.

In this specific case, the idea that Williams is a better safety than Lattimore is a CB is laughable. But a lot of people may look at that grade and believe it’s a reflection of the two players respective abilities at their positions.
 
Red, yellow, green, or blue - does not matter - Peat's gonna play and start. His "replacement" is not happening this year.

His new deal is a mystery to all of us, but we can only hope that the head office knows what they're doing.
 
I hear you. I’m not trying to hammer them.

But I think their grading is often accepted as an accurate reflection of a player’s true ability as opposed to a tool or stat, as you mentioned.

In this specific case, the idea that Williams is a better safety than Lattimore is a CB is laughable. But a lot of people may look at that grade and believe it’s a reflection of the two players respective abilities at their positions.
Yeah, it's definitely laughable when people try to say a higher overall grade equals a better player. Might as well go with number of tackles to decide the best LB. Or Passer Rating for QB. Even comparing at the same position, with the same role, it's still flawed. But comparing different positions takes it to the next level of ridiculousness.
 
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OP you lost me after saying I’m a huge fan of PFF. They are nothing but idiots.

I don’t think that’s fair. I don’t know the validity of their football knowledge, and yes their numbers can absolutely be misleading to player talent. But there is no other consistent play for play quantified grading site for individual player performance.

I think it’s important to appreciate PFF for what they are. I would choose Lattimore over Williams in a heartbeat, but to me it validates the fact that Lattimore had his worst NFL season in 2019. It should be taken with a grain of salt, but it’s a usable tool for sure IMO.
 
I am a huge fan of PFF’s analytics and play by play grading system. Below are the notable grades for the Saints roster.

Not certain how PFF defines its grades, but I will qualify every as such:

> 79.9 = Quality NFL Starter
69.9 - 79.8 = Above Replacement Level
59.9 - 69.8 = Replacement Level
< 58.8. = Necessary to Replace
QB:
Drew Brees - 91.2

RB:
Alvin Kamara - 69.9
Latavius Murray - 73.9


WR:
Michael Thomas - 90.4
Emmanuel Sanders - 78.4
Tre’Quan Smith - 64.4

TE:
Jared Cook - 75.9

Terron Armstead - 80.0
Andrus Peat - 49.7
Erik McCoy - 76.2
Larry Warford - 73.1

Ryan Ramcyzk - 91.0
Nick Eason - 49.3

Other:
Taysom Hill - 84.1

DL:
Cameron Jordan - 87.6
Marcus Davenport - 84.1

Trey Hendrickson - 63.3
Sheldon Rankins - 65.6

David Onyemata - 55.5
Malcom Brown - 68.2

LB:
Demario Davis - 90.1
Kiko Alonso - 70.9
Craig Robertson - 57.6
Alex Anzalone - 49.1


DB:
Marshon Lattimore - 68.0
Janoris Jenkins - 68.8
Malcolm Jenkins - 68.6

Marcus Williams - 87.3
Patrick Robinson - 62.0
Chauncey Gardner-Johnson - 72.7

In utilizing these numbers, I would say it’s important to use perspective. Obviously, Kamara & Lattimore stand out as players that played at a fringe replacement level in 2019, but should certainly be leaned on to be better in 2020. The depth in the secondary is encouraging, but it would not be unwise to add some talent.

This illustration paints a clear and obvious hole at LG. Andrus Peat is a liability and I am hopeful it’s addressed soon..

thank goodness for our handful of quality NFL starters....otherwise the entire team is garbage

how on earth do we manage to win with those PFF grades

:rolleyes:
 
PFF is great in that they create a platform. To me that platform is a starting point to begin to look deeper, and investigate those areas where there is discordance with what you believe you've seen and what you're seeing as a grade.

Peat and Williams are two interesting examples, and I think very similar - good players who have a history of making visible blunders on occasion. Those blunders stick in the mind and colour the view of that player's overall performance.

So when Peat gets a low score, everyone remembers the blunders and says, yeah, that scans - the grading must be true. But then they see Williams' score, remember the blunders and think, no, that score can't be right.

I think part of the reason there is such a divergence is because playing free safety, I imagine that 50% of plays don't end up in a touch point (tackle or coverage scenario) - he's generally covering space, positioning. There is no such luxury in the trenches. I will admit, there are some plays where it's an easy plus (C/G combo on the 1 tech where the LB doesn't blitz, or playside of a bootleg or something). But generally, every play is a battle which you either win or lose, and as an offensive lineman, if you lose 5 in a game, it's a bad film review meeting the next day.

So think of the grading. Williams probably gets lots of easy plusses, whereas one false step or misplaced hand for Peat and it's a minus.

PFF ratings aside, Peat is a decent starter in this league in my view, and when he's playing well, a pretty good starter. His 2019 was worse than his 2018. I think he's being paid like 2018 Peat. Also, I thought he and Eason were playing at a relatively similar level last year, which seems to be bourne out by PFF (to the extent that we can believe the ratings).

It'd be interesting to see whether Warford's play matches his rating as there was a suggestion that he'd performed worse than Peat this year.
 
2018-2019, Peat played with a broken hand during our two playoff games. He had a very visible penalty which we will recall took away a big Kamara play. He never missed a play.

As I recall, last year he was rushed back in 6 weeks to play with a surgically repaired broken arm. That's one of the biggest, strongest men on the field playing with a 6 week old break.

Peat's 2017 season ended with a broken freaking leg.

I recall a concussion and high ankle sprain in 18, as well.

If anything, dude is tough and willing to play through pain when the team needs him and I think that earns him a pass from the coaches that PFF is never going to credit.

Still, Payton and Loomis led us to back to back 13 win seasons and if they grade him worth the money, then PFF be damned.
 

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