Police Shootings / Possible Abuse Threads [merged] (7 Viewers)

[Bishop]

Yes.. Given what we saw Yes.. The treatment was unwarranted... His language of course was uncalled for. But all I am saying is that there may be way more to this... We do not know for how long this had been going on outside. There is more to it than just this last little bit of footage.

so I will ask you though... the same question... You said yourself the store called... So YOU are the cop... 911 tells the YOU that there are some shoplifters.. You roll up. You ask the people to get out of the car with their hands up... They do not... What do you do next?

They simply weren't refusing the order to exit the vehicle .Did you not hear two separate voices from within that raggedy truck stating that driver door didn't open.? The cops did. Did you not hear her state that she had her babies in her hands? The cops did. The other officer covering the passenger side could quickly ascertain this while covering the passenger as that person exited.

I still wouldnt approach and treat suspects of a dollar store doll heist the same as I would the suspect of a drive by, etc.

 

[Joe OKC]

cop did nothing to ascertain the situation and to see if there was any actual danger
they come guns drawn and turn a level 2 situation into an 11

You do not know that. You have absolutely zero proof nor evidence of that.

And if they did not follow his command to put their hands up and get out of the car... Then there was no way that he could have ascertained the situation. He could only go on the assumption that they were unwilling to co-operate and in that scenario one must also ascertain that the possibility that they could be armed does indeed exist.

If there are any LEO's out there reading... Please tell me if I am correct or not. Because I can only logically surmise.

 

[Bishop]

Nah theyre busy out there dealing with real crime, unlike dollar store doll heists by toddlers...

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You do not know that. You have absolutely zero proof nor evidence of that.

And if they did not follow his command to put their hands up and get out of the car... Then there was no way that he could have ascertained the situation. He could only go on the assumption that they were unwilling to co-operate and in that scenario one must also ascertain that the possibility that they could be armed does indeed exist.

the evidence is what is on the video
if more evidence comes out then that additional evidence will be taken in to account

i am watching and responding to what the video shows
you are the one who needs to add suppositionals to make the narrative work

if additional video shows that you are correct, i will digitally shake your hand
right now you are the one making an argument not based on evidence

If there are any LEO's out there reading... Please tell me if I am correct or not. Because I can only logically surmise.

and please understand that your surmising is only 'logical' if you are assuming a cops = good position

 

[Joe OKC]

--- Id proceed to handle them as I would anyone during any investigation

Of course... But you have not said what you would do next since the suspects are not following your command to put their hands up and exit the vehicle. Nor you have given me a time frame that according to you would be satisfactory to make some kind of decision on whether to approach the vehicle after that refused you commands.


--- They simply weren't refusing the order to exit the vehicle .Did you not hear two separate voices from within that raggedy truck stating that driver door didn't open.? The cops did. Did you not hear her state that she had her babies in her hands? The cops did. The other officer covering the passenger side to could quickly ascertain this while covering the passenger as that person exited.

I heard three things exactly...
The door won't open...
I have a baby in my arms. (WHo has that as she was behind the wheel)
and I'm pregnant. (That has nothing to do with exiting a vehicle.)

---- I still wouldnt approach and treat suspects of a dollar store doll heist the same as I would the suspect of a drive by , etc.

Of course you wouldn't. Neither would I and I imagine neither would the cops... But somewhere along the way something happened... They just did not freak out and go ballistic for no reason.

I am not trying to argue with you Bishop.. There has to be more to it than this... Now @guidomerkinsrule.. I'll argue with him... lol

 

[Saint_Ward]

It has been established that the store didn't call the police. A random person did.

We know they ended up not being charged or arrested.

Maybe they actually bought stuff there, and didn't realize the kid grabbed a doll.

Maybe, when a cop just starts screaming at you, it is jarring, and putting the baby down may give them reason to thinks she's reaching for something and doesn't want to get shot.

Maybe a traffic stop for something like petty theft should be treated like speeding. Walk up to the car. Roll down windows.

Hi, we got a call about a possible shop lift at the dollar store. You were described, do you mind getting out of the car so we can talk about it?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

i was trying to use hyperbole about the wheelchair thing
oops


According to reports, police encountered McDole after receiving reports about a man in a wheelchair who had allegedly shot himself. Cellphone camera footage of McDole’s death shows an officer approaching him with his gun drawn yelling, “Show me your hands!” The camera moves down as a gunshot can be heard. Seconds later, more officers approach McDole with their own weapons drawn. McDole’s hands can be seen moving from his waist to his legs and he can be seen adjusting himself in the chair, which he used after being shot when he was 18 years old.

As McDole’s hands move toward the front of his jeans, the officers fire on him. Despite being described as having a gun, no firearm is visible near him. Investigators later said that they recovered a .38-caliber handgun by his side, an allegation that McDole’s family questioned.

The family sued both the city of Wilmington and the police department in March 2016, saying that McDole was the victim of “grossly excessive and wanton lethal force” on the part of police.

Two months later, the state state Department of Justice released a report stating that the four officers involved — Senior Cpl. Joseph Dellose, Cpl. Thomas Lynch, Cpl. James MacColl, and Senior Cpl. Danny Silva — would not be charged in connection with McDole’s death.

In January 2017, the United States Justice Department also said that it would not pursue a federal civil rights lawsuit against the officer, saying there was insufficient evidence to disprove the officers’ claims that they shot McDole in self-defense.

 

[LAhotsauce]

No Sir... She has two kids.. My point is that you did not have all the facts before you jumped to your conclusion... So therefore you do not and did not have all the facts in this case... But yet your mind is already made up... and you accuse me of tribalism? Or whatever... Maybe once all the facts come out, then you can make a sound judgement call.

Now you're going to stretch the definition of the word "fact" now? It was a child. Not a "child", but a freaking toddler. Thats a fact.

 

[Joe OKC]

the evidence is what is on the video
if more evidence comes out then that additional evidence will be taken in to account

i am watching and responding to what the video shows
you are the one who needs to add suppositionals to make the narrative work

if additional video shows that you are correct, i will digitally shake your hand
right now you are the one making an argument not based on evidence

I think that's a fair and just statement , that I agree with. We will see what more evidence gets presented and we will both evaluate... I hope that @Bishop and @LAhotsauce agree with that.

I do believe that there was something that happened and a specific amount of time that happened before the camera got rolling. Perhaps their dash cam may show something. That's what we need to know to come to some conclusion of what may have actually happened...

Perhaps the presence of those two little children may have put stress on that cop. The last thing a cop wants is to shot somebody, and they have a worry of shooting a black person especially so they go anti shoot mode. Can you imagine if he had shot a black baby?

But what if the parents knew the baby grabbed the barbie and it was being stolen? Where does that fall into play? Regardless what the cop did.

There were 4 cops I saw total. She could have just put the baby in the back seat. She wasn't driving with the baby. ANd it was her I believe was in the drivers seat. The One cop appoached the car as best he could given the situation. It seemed an older cop was the one handeling it. and he was mad about something.

 

[Bishop]

Ok . Another random calling cops This recent case is about kids playing in an abandoned house with cap guns, as I have in many backyards during my youth. Cop clearly reports to dispatch that it sounds like kids playing with cap guns. Cap guns sound nothing like gunfire to myself, much less a trained gun enthusiast LEO . I can hear them popping as he nears the house while attempting to identify himself. They couldn't hear him while inside the house then one emerges

So how does the the LEO respond? Well why not stick your gun through a hole in the fence, offer a feeble warning , then fire? The kid didn't even get a chance to figure out who was issuing commands through the hole in the fence. Of course they keep him cuffed after shooting him, showing no remorse whatsoever.

 

[brandon8283]

But what if the parents knew the baby grabbed the barbie and it was being stolen? Where does that fall into play? Regardless what the cop did.

It falls into the category of petit larceny and they'll get a gosh darned fine.

It's not forking armed robbery, it's a toddler picking up a Barbie doll. It's one step above a speeding ticket. There's just nothing that excuses the cops' behavior based on what we see.

 

[SharonT]

I have a baby in my arms. (WHo has that as she was behind the wheel)
and I'm pregnant. (That has nothing to do with exiting a vehicle.)

Said no mother. Ever.

Leave out the color of her skin and the broken handle of the door and the entire situation with the cops present. Let's see her defy physics while holding a wiggling baby without twisting and possibly moving her hands out of sight. No putting an arm down for leverage, either.

This is what a complete lack of empathy does... Sad.

 

[Dago]

like others have said, maybe there is more to this but from what is there the only logical conclusion is that unless there is more to this, the cop is in the wrong

there is book called Verbal Judo that teaches verbal de-escalation that LEOs all over the country use. If we can accept that this book teaches methods and techniques that will calm people down and keep situations from getting worse, then we also have to accept that doing the OPPOSITE of what is in this book will indeed make a minor situation into a major one

 

[Saint_Ward]

Ok . Another random calling cops This recent case is about kids playing in an abandoned house with cap guns, as I have in many backyards during my youth. Cop clearly reports to dispatch that it sounds like kids playing with cap guns. Cap guns sound nothing like gunfire to myself, much less a trained gun enthusiast LEO . I can hear them popping as he nears the house while attempting to identify himself. They couldn't hear him while inside the house then one emerges

So how does the the LEO respond? Well why not stick your gun through a hole in the fence, offer a feeble warning , then fire? The kid didn't even get a chance to figure out who was issuing commands through the hole in the fence. Of course they keep him cuffed after shooting him, showing no remorse whatsoever.

At least they were checking him out after. Other shootings they've just let them bleed.

But yeah, what the hell?

 

[Joe OKC]

This is what a complete lack of empathy does... Sad.

This is not a lack of empathy here. Just a lack of all the evidence. I am not going to stand and die on this hill defending this cop, but I have said there has to be more to this.

But as I stated, I am sure there is more. and it's starting to come out now.

Phoenix police report differs from witness videos of viral incident

A $10 million legal claim was filed against the City of Phoenix that says police officers committed civil rights violations by pointing guns and profanely yelling commands at the father and pregnant mother of two young daughters because one of the children shoplifted a doll at a dollar store.

www.abc15.com

I thought the video was shot in front of the store.. It was not.. That video was shot at the suspects Apt. Complex.
There were more stolen items in the car.
They also had the young girl's aunt with them who was shoplifting also. She dropped her items at the door when she saw the police. She was able to exit the car before the video begins. She was also arrested.
The cops followed the car with the suspects.
There was another person in the car that was dropped off at another location.
The Driver - The young man- Admitted to throwing stolen underwear out of the window as the police were behind him.
The Driver - Again the Young man was instructed by another officer at the store on ANOTHER shoplifting call instructed him not to drive away and leave the scene but he did.

In the police report, officers allege the four-year-old girl’s Aunt was also shoplifting. She reportedly dropped stuff at the door when she noticed the officer.

According to their statements to police, an officer yelled for the car to stop, and the parents heard the command, but Ames drove off anyway. He also allegedly admitted to throwing a pair of “stolen underwear” out the window.

Police say an officer was at the store on an unrelated shoplifting call when store employees told him about another shoplifting complaint and directed him toward a vehicle that was leaving the parking lot as the officer approached. The officer had told Ames, who was driving the car to stop, but he didn't, police said.

Another woman who was inside the vehicle was dropped off at another location before the family reached the apartment complex. She had three outstanding misdemeanor warrants and was booked, police said.

No one was charged with shoplifting because the property was returned, and store employees didn't want the case prosecuted, police said. But Ames was given a traffic citation for driving on a suspended license.

We now have 4 adults in the car, multiple people shoplifting and multiple items taken. And the driver of the car leaving the scene of an investigation when instructed not to by the police and trying to ditch evidence

So now it is not as simple as just a Toddler stole a Barbie Doll now is it?

And that was my whole point... There had to be more to this... The cop just did not freak out and go ballistic just because the people were black...
Was the cop wrong, did he use excessive force, violence and language??? Probably so...
Were the suspects wrong, were they shoplifting, throwing away evidence, refusing commands and using the children to try and keep from being arrested??? Probably so.