Police Shootings / Possible Abuse Threads [merged] (3 Viewers)

SWJJ

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The kid was not even the one buying the pot. He gave someone else a ride. Of course the cop was just protecting himself. The hardened criminal was driving right at him, at least such was the police officers position. However the official autopsy has been released and it [apparently] shows he was shot from behind and that there is no way the car could have been moving.


multiple links for the story:

Local

Huffington

This link Say the cop did not include the shooting in his initial report.
 

Optimus Prime

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To be frank, it will take a majority of White Americans to care enough. And it is my solemn, sincere belief that not enough White Americans have been educated about this country's historical legacy of policing, its direct ties to racial animus and generally about race itself. Too many are "trapped in a history they don't understand" and without understanding there can be no empathy and this won't change without an overwhelming sense of empathy.

Last summer was the most I had ever seen of White America caring - people who hadn't realized or recognized how deep the issue really was

This is always the case. but it's even more than that

It has to come from white people that they didn't expect, it has to come from people that they didn't think cared at all. From within their own circle

A lot of people we are talking about couldn't care less what what Rachel Maddow or Chris Cuomo or John Oliver has to say about anything

If their bleeding heart co-worker is for it then they are against it

It has to come from the "new" percentage

On any hot button social issue they'll say last year 40% supported X this year it's 43% support

I think it's that 3% that drives the change

"Last year I was against this, now I'm for it, here's why and I think you should be for it too"

When that comes from your best friend since college it carries so much more weight than anything anyone from "the other side" who you already hate can say to you

And when more and more people around you (people who you know, love, trust and respect) change their positions that makes it easier to take a look at your own views
 
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HoustonSaint68

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When that comes from your best friend since college it carries so much more weight than anything anyone from "the other side" who you already hate can say to you

And when more and more people around you (people who know, love, trust and respect) change their positions that makes it easier to take a look at your own views
Agreed, although part of the problem is that a lot of otherwise close people aren't talking any more about these issues, especially when they have 24/7 echo chambers available literally at their fingertips. Arguing about politics was always fraught with tension, but you used to be able to do it with family and friends without fear of alienation. Not anymore.
 

Optimus Prime

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Agreed, although part of the problem is that a lot of otherwise close people aren't talking any more about these issues, especially when they have 24/7 echo chambers available literally at their fingertips. Arguing about politics was always fraught with tension, but you used to be able to do it with family and friends without fear of alienation. Not anymore.


I read that during the Watergate hearings co-workers would have lively, heated debates at lunchtime and then after work all go bowling together or out for fondue or some other 70s activity

You're right. Not anymore
 

HoustonSaint68

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I read that during the Watergate hearings co-workers would have lively, heated debates at lunchtime and then after work all go bowling together or out for fondue or some other 70s activity

You're right. Not anymore
For sure. My ex-mother-in-law and I (and often the family priest) used to argue about politics regularly -- it was an old-fashioned thing called "respectful debate". Now, over 40 years later, she can't even talk politics with her own daughter for fear of a falling out. Sad.
 

DaveXA

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For sure. My ex-mother-in-law and I (and often the family priest) used to argue about politics regularly -- it was an old-fashioned thing called "respectful debate". Now, over 40 years later, she can't even talk politics with her own daughter for fear of a falling out. Sad.
Yeah, I don't know at what point it happened, but in my family, when I was a kid, talking politics was actually frowned upon. Never really talked about it in my home. It wasn't until I was in college that I started to become more aware politically. Had lively debates with friends. Then started talking politics here on the PDB and now MAP. I talk with my kids every now and then about some political topics, and we've had good discussions. My boys lean right and my girls definitely left. I've always encouraged them to figure things out on their own, ask questions and read as much as they can. They all actually get along pretty well. So, go figure. Lol.
 

Optimus Prime

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A 32-year-old Virginia man is "fighting for his life" after a sheriff's deputy allegedly mistook the cordless landline phone in his hand during a 911 call for a gun and opened fire, shooting him 10 times, according to the man's attorney.

The Black victim, Isaiah Brown, "was unarmed," the attorney, David Haynes, said at a news conference Monday, reports Richmond TV station WRIC. "It was a cordless phone. He was on that phone with 911. He obeyed all commands.".........

 

HoustonSaint68

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A 32-year-old Virginia man is "fighting for his life" after a sheriff's deputy allegedly mistook the cordless landline phone in his hand during a 911 call for a gun and opened fire, shooting him 10 times, according to the man's attorney.

The Black victim, Isaiah Brown, "was unarmed," the attorney, David Haynes, said at a news conference Monday, reports Richmond TV station WRIC. "It was a cordless phone. He was on that phone with 911. He obeyed all commands.".........

Once again, someone with mental health issues doesn't get the help they need and the system didn't do the cop any favors either.
 

DavidM

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So, you know I love yall, right? But, this is one of these times that I have to spit it raw.

"Defund the Police" was the out White America was looking for. Yikes. Keep reading. Remember, I love you. One of the reasons that I am so adamant that police reform can't happen without tackling the issue of racial animus is that it is my sincere belief that police reform can only happen when the American populace decides that we do not want to be policed in this way anymore. Which means, that a majority of Americans, who are White Americans, will have to decide to reform and change something that DOES NOT disproportionately affect themselves, their families or their world.

To be frank, it will take a majority of White Americans to care enough. And it is my solemn, sincere belief that not enough White Americans have been educated about this country's historical legacy of policing, its direct ties to racial animus and generally about race itself. Too many are "trapped in a history they don't understand" and without understanding there can be no empathy and this won't change without an overwhelming sense of empathy.

I used the analogy last summer but what if there was a pill on the market that cured cancer and it was branded and sold as "The Devil's Penis." What a ridiculous thing to name such a life saving measure. And for some, their fight would immediately become, "hey we gotta rebrand this thing and change the name, change the marketing." And that is legitimate. But, it can't become THE fight. And if you had cancer, or your mother/father, wife/husband or daughter/son had cancer, I guarantee you that rebranding wouldn't be your primary fight. You would be researching this pill to see if it does what it says and, if so, finding out how fast to get it into you or your loved one's blood stream.

Because no one would look their daughter in the eye and say, "there is a pill, it can begin to cure your cancer, I've researched it, the science is sound, it's worked for others, but...that whacky name."

The cold, raw truth is that not enough White Americans cared enough and "Defund the Police" provided cover to dodge an ugly American truth: we aren't policed the same, we don't all experience it the same, to the same degree and that makes it easier to maintain the status quo. Because not everyone's kids have to live with cancer...
I love you right back. Sincerely. Profoundly.

I'm not looking for an out to re-imaging policing. I am not in denial about the racist history of law enforcement in this country that continues to permeate throughout the justice system. This country was forged in racism and genocide. I think the generational tragedy of racist policing must be confronted and overcome. I hate the phrase, "Defund the Police." I hate it precisely because it is misleading to what is being sought and was an unnecessary roadblock the instant it passed from somebody's brain to public consciousness.

Your analogy is actually a good example of why phrasing matters. We are living in a time when misinformation is an ever greater obstacle. Words matter. Words can't betray worthy ideas.

Look at the barriers that exist to getting people vaccinated amid a global pandemic. Tweak your analogy and call the vaccine the Satan Shot. A lot of people are already being manipulated by misinformation, so it's not at all difficult to imagine the fervor had the vaccine rollout been hampered, from the start, by careless messaging.

I agree with you that policing has no chance of being reimagined without winning over a large segment of white Americans, which is why I cringe at "Defund the Police." Because I know it sets up as a nonstarter for the very people who need to be convinced. Middle class suburban moms are imagining a world where police are even less responsive, or perhaps, unavailable, in a crisis situation, to a point where it overrides the more immediate and rampant concerns that advocates for police reform need them dialed into. Messaging is a failure when it doesn't welcome the very people it needs to sway.

"Defund the police" might have sounded bold to the people who are fed up and already committed to the fight, but the messaging isn't meant to be for them. Not effective messaging, anyway. It's for the people you and I agree need to be reached. "Defund" isn't an easy out, it's a hurdle that didn't have to exist.

Re-imagine policing.

Reallocate emergency funding.

Community policing.

Fair policing.

Fund inclusive safety.

I'm spitballing but there are any number of ways something more affirmative could have been the leading cry.

Defund the Police. ACAB. Those are ways of shutting down discussion and turning off much needed potential allies.
 

HoustonSaint68

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Yeah, I don't know at what point it happened, but in my family, when I was a kid, talking politics was actually frowned upon. Never really talked about it in my home. It wasn't until I was in college that I started to become more aware politically. Had lively debates with friends. Then started talking politics here on the PDB and now MAP. I talk with my kids every now and then about some political topics, and we've had good discussions. My boys lean right and my girls definitely left. I've always encouraged them to figure things out on their own, ask questions and read as much as they can. They all actually get along pretty well. So, go figure. Lol.
I'm just not wired to do politics by text or email or even telephone. I need to see the person for it to work for me. I was thrilled when Andrus off-ramped political discussion off the main board.
 

DaveXA

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I'm just not wired to do politics by text or email or even telephone. I need to see the person for it to work for me. I was thrilled when Andrus off-ramped political discussion off the main board.

Lol, I'm the opposite. Most political discussions of my life have been on this board and the PDB, with the lone exception being my immediate family. I don't talk politics at work, and seldom did when I was a minister. So opportunities for in person discussions were few and far between.

I think I'd prefer in person discussions, but a discussion board is effective for me because I can go back and reevaluate some of my comments and positions and think more about why I think the way I do. Here and on the PDB I feel like I get a bit broader points of view on discussion topics that I might not otherwise get when doing in person discussions. There are pros and cons to both imo.
 

DaveXA

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Newt Gingrich

Maybe, I would say more specifically "Contract with America". But, I tend to think this was more a product of a long, slow, but sure shift to tribal politics and everyone being somewhat straitjacketed into a fairly predictable set of beliefs.

You could even go back to Nixon when it started somewhat, but debates were still at least somewhat cordial until Newt came onto the scene. To me it was probably more Rush than Newt because Rush had the bullhorn more than Newt did.
 

HoustonSaint68

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Newt Gingrich
Yep. That's it.

Politics was always a sharp-elbowed business but Newt Gingrich and the so-called Contract With America was the start to the modern day, scorched earth, "I win if you lose" style of politics, good of the country be damned.
 

HoustonSaint68

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Maybe, I would say more specifically "Contract with America". But, I tend to think this was more a product of a long, slow, but sure shift to tribal politics and everyone being somewhat straitjacketed into a fairly predictable set of beliefs.
Beat me to it, although I do believe Newt Gingrich is more to blame for the sorry state of American politics than any other individual person.
 

DaveXA

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Beat me to it, although I do believe Newt Gingrich is more to blame for the sorry state of American politics than any other individual person.
I added to my post, but I think Rush is the guy who used his media presence to keep all of that front and center. Tough call, lol.
 

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