Police Shootings / Possible Abuse Threads [merged] (1 Viewer)

Denzien

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How does shooting the driver of a moving vehicle make people safer? Is this some kind of long-play, future crime justification for putting everyone in the vicinity at greater risk of being hit by an uncontrolled moving vehicle?

From what some of reporting, firing into the vehicle is against that department's policy. Supposedly it states that officers are not to fire into a moving vehicle. And it makes sense to say this as that vehicle could then injure others.

This is a great point. What if they had shot him and he hit the accelerator and the car veered towards others? Clearly putting bystanders in danger....I hope those cops get what they deserve but they probably won't.....

That's a great point. Didn't really think about that aspect.

Was my presentation of this concern just poorly constructed? So poor that the non-sequitur response was worthy of internet points?
I know I don't have a high social IQ, but I'm often very confused by the signals I get here.

(I actually am legitimately asking for feedback)
 
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DaveXA

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I'm wondering if that is some kind of WalMart policy. I know of someone who was arrested for theft at a WalMart. He said that he was with his expectant wife and they were using the self-checkout. His wife became ill and went to the restroom, and he finished checking out. When she came out, they started to leave, and were told that they had stolen the items in the bottom of their cart. He explained what happened and said he'd go pay for them, and they told him no, and called the cops.
That's just stupid. I don't know if it's a lack of training or what. My wife worked at a Target and that wasn't what they were trained to do. Maybe each retailer has their own way of dealing with stuff, but I've actually walked out of the store and returned to pay for items several times and never had a problem doing that. (To be clear, I walked out and had missed an item in the basket, not walked out without paying for anything). Maybe it's because I was a regular and the people there recognized me. Idk.

I understand retailers need to do some risk management, but I have to think they have a certain amount of loss to theft and damage as well as returned items built into their business model. If someone tried walking out with a TV or something, I can understand it, but someone walking out with $14 worth of stuff or someone missing an item when buying a basket full of goods is pretty silly to call the police.
 
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Grandadmiral

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Was my presentation of this concern just poorly constructed? So poor that the non-sequitur response was worthy of internet points?
I know I don't have a high social IQ, but I'm often very confused by the signals I get here.

(I actually am legitimately asking for feedback)
I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Monte's post as I quoted. I was speaking specifically to the story of the officers violating department policy.
 

Optimus Prime

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Even if this guy was the right suspect the cop would still be way out of
=====================

A federal court judge on Friday sentenced a former St. Paul, Minn., police officer to six years in prison after a jury found him guilty of a civil rights violation for beating an unarmed Black man who was mistaken for a suspect nearly five years ago.


A federal jury in 2019 convicted former St. Paul officer Brett Palkowitsch of using excessive force against an unarmed civilian after he brutally kicked and severely injured Frank Amal Baker and let a police dog maul him.


In June 2016, Palkowitsch and other police officers responded to a call about a large street fight in St. Paul, where dispatchers said an “unidentified black male with dreadlocks and a white t-shirt” was seen carrying a gun.


After arriving at the scene, Palkowitsch and another officer found no evidence of a street fight but noticed a man who they said matched the suspect’s description, sitting in his car talking on a cellphone.

One of the officers told Baker to get out of the car, as the police dog barked loudly at him, according to a criminal complaint.


Seconds later, the officer released the dog, which knocked Baker to the ground and started mauling his leg.

While Baker was on the ground screaming in pain, Palkowitsch kicked Baker in the torso continuously, breaking seven ribs and causing his lungs to collapse, according to a Department of Justice statement.


According to court records, Palkowitsch testified he “firmly believed” the person on the ground matching the description was in fact the person who was seen with a weapon and that he had “acted under the assumption” that the person being bitten by the dog had a weapon on him........

 

Optimus Prime

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Below are a couple comments from this article

first time hearing about the high IQ thing

we all know that police departments are hiring people they shouldn’t but is there any truth to them turning away people they shouldn’t?

interesting on the amount of training too
==============

I'm glad the officer was sorry, and it seems he was sincere about it.

But this brings a big problem into focus: Police departments are not hiring the best or brightest, often on purpose. I have read that most of them don't want people who have high IQs. And many want strong personalities who will get tough easily, and some of those personalities are violent rage time bombs just waiting to go off.

Forget "defund the police"; it will be better to overhaul our police forces and replace all the bad apples with responsible, intelligent, and humane officers of he law.

Today's ranks contain many newspaper headlines just waiting to happen. And behind those headlines are always unqualified individuals who cost their jurisdictions untold millions in compensatory damages, as well as pain and tragedy in the community at large.
========================


They literally don't want cops to be too intelligent. Not too long ago a guy was rejected by the police academy for scoring too high on the IQ test. He sued and lost.

Norway: Requires 3 years of training. Between 2002-2016 they had 4 fatalities caused by police.

Finland: Requires a 3-year degree. Between 2000-2018 they had 7 fatalities caused by police.

Germany: Requires 2 years of training. Since 1990 they have had 267 fatalities caused by police.

USA: Requires a high school diploma and 21 weeks of training. In 2019 alone they had 1,004 fatalities caused by police.
The US requires more education and training to be a cosmetologist than a cop:

There are regional variations, but on average, the length of time to complete cosmetology training and licensing can be four to five years, not including high school. If you study part-time, it could take longer. During this time you will spend: Two years earning an associate degree.
 

Optimus Prime

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Sometimes good policing means letting a suspect escape. When officers instead pursue a fleeing suspect and end up killing him, prosecutors can face a difficult question: Was the killing justified?

Yet another district attorney has answered this question the wrong way — revealing once again how Black lives not mattering is embedded in routine practices by police and prosecutors.


Seven law enforcement officers went to Andrew Brown Jr.’s home in Elizabeth City, N.C., to execute arrest and search warrants for nonviolent drug crimes. The cops found Brown in his car; 44 seconds later, they shot him dead — in the back of the head......

What’s clear is that this death did not need to happen. Two officers positioned themselves in front of Brown’s car, and then used their vulnerability as an excuse to kill him

. Womble claimed the police were “duty-bound to stand their ground, carry through on the performance of their duties and take Andrew Brown into custody.”

This “dead or alive” mentality may be the law of old western movies, but the Constitution does not support it.


Just because someone resists arrest or tries to escape police custody does not entitle the police to kill. The law requires police act reasonably, in light of all the circumstances, including the crime the person is suspected of, and the danger he poses.


The reasonable thing, in this case, would be for the cops to get out of the way and let Brown escape. They could have arrested him another time; they knew where he lived and what his car looked like.

Brown was wanted for nonviolent drug offenses, hardly a crime that justifies killing a suspect to prevent him from escaping.......

 

guidomerkinsrules

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Below are a couple comments from this article

first time hearing about the high IQ thing

we all know that police departments are hiring people they shouldn’t but is there any truth to them turning away people they shouldn’t?

interesting on the amount of training too
==============

I'm glad the officer was sorry, and it seems he was sincere about it.

But this brings a big problem into focus: Police departments are not hiring the best or brightest, often on purpose. I have read that most of them don't want people who have high IQs. And many want strong personalities who will get tough easily, and some of those personalities are violent rage time bombs just waiting to go off.

Forget "defund the police"; it will be better to overhaul our police forces and replace all the bad apples with responsible, intelligent, and humane officers of he law.

Today's ranks contain many newspaper headlines just waiting to happen. And behind those headlines are always unqualified individuals who cost their jurisdictions untold millions in compensatory damages, as well as pain and tragedy in the community at large.
========================


They literally don't want cops to be too intelligent. Not too long ago a guy was rejected by the police academy for scoring too high on the IQ test. He sued and lost.

Norway: Requires 3 years of training. Between 2002-2016 they had 4 fatalities caused by police.

Finland: Requires a 3-year degree. Between 2000-2018 they had 7 fatalities caused by police.

Germany: Requires 2 years of training. Since 1990 they have had 267 fatalities caused by police.

USA: Requires a high school diploma and 21 weeks of training. In 2019 alone they had 1,004 fatalities caused by police.
The US requires more education and training to be a cosmetologist than a cop:
It’s an understandable theory
but at this point a theory in search of evidence
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I tend to think it's more that high IQ people probably avoid the profession entirely. :scratch:
Yeah there are a slew of sociological sand traps to get through before getting to that conclusion
Doesn’t make it wrong, there’s just a lot of occams razors navigate first
 

DaveXA

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Yeah there are a slew of sociological sand traps to get through before getting to that conclusion
Doesn’t make it wrong, there’s just a lot of occams razors navigate first
Indeed. I have no idea what their hiring practices are, but, even though I was somewhat interested in the idea of it when I was a kid, as I grew older and learned more, the idea of being a cop pretty much disappeared.
 

bigdaddysaints

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Woman Allegedly Shot by Off-Duty Cop While on Her Way to Hospital​

he conflict reportedly continued with the two racing past each other in their cars, until Murray stopped and confronted him. Murray, in pain, clutched her side as they argued, and soon, she said, the man pulled out a gun.

"When I turned around to run back to my truck and get out of there, I just heard pop pop pop pop and all I could do was bend over and duck," she explained. She added that he didn't identify himself as a police officer until after he started firing the weapon.
according to Murray, the officer only identified himself as such once he saw the crowd of neighbors that had gathered at the scene. "At the time, when he's looking back and seeing these guys recording, he turned around, then he took out his badge," she said.

 

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