Police Shootings / Possible Abuse Threads [merged] (6 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

sounds like he is saying everyone needs to keep their mouths shut and let police treat people however they want because people deserve to die over small things..

Nah. The drum he usually beats us focus of police reform and leave race out of it- I and others will then say those things are inextricable
and it stops there

but I still don’t see how his post says what he usually says

 

[Saintamaniac]

Police continue to do the things that they do because they know that there is very little chance that they will be held accountable. If police truly feared being held accountable for their actions, they would either retire (like many are doing now because they see the writing on the wall) or they would begin to follow their training to the letter and learn the damn laws that they are supposed to be upholding.

Police park illegally because they know nothing will happen. Police lie regularly on reports and especially to the public because they know little or nothing will happen. Police speed illegally because they know nothing will happen. Everything that police do that is either a violation of department policy or outright illegal (violating people's constitutional rights) they do because they know that nothing will be done.

Law enforcement can be done without breaking the law. There is just little incentive (other than honor) for law enforcement officials to not break the law. We should never be to a point where people can't be blamed for wishing hateful sheet against law enforcement officers and their families but here we are.

 

[tomwaits]

Nah. The drum he usually beats us focus of police reform and leave race out of it- I and others will then say those things are inextricable
and it stops there

but I still don’t see how his post says what he usually says

I am saying we tried the solution path of burning down and looting private business and beating up old ladies case 'racism' and we still have police with no accountability.
So as many of us originally recommended, why don't we look into actual police reform and stay focused on the people who are committing the abuse, police officers and government.

I'm likely top 5 on the forum as far as not liking police.

Government loves groups fighting each other instead of fighting them. Rubes always seem to fall for it.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I am saying we tried the solution path of burning down and looting private business and beating up old ladies case 'racism' and we still have police with no accountability.
So as many of us originally recommended, why don't we look into actual police reform and stay focused on the people who are committing the abuse, police officers and government.

I'm likely top 5 on the forum as far as not liking police.

Government loves groups fighting each other instead of fighting them. Rubes always seem to fall for it.

that wasn't a 'solution path' and i'm 98% sure you know that
it was an expression of anger, frustration, pain, et al
we haven't really tried anything and it's pretty disingenuous to imply we have

i'm not taking the hiding societal ills behind govt hate bait - it's lame

 

[tomwaits]

that wasn't a 'solution path' and i'm 98% sure you know that
it was an expression of anger, frustration, pain, et al
we haven't really tried anything and it's pretty disingenuous to imply we have

i'm not taking the hiding societal ills behind govt hate bait - it's lame

In 6 months, a year, 2 years we will still be talking about the same stuff on this thread.

When I mention things that can actually be done to move the needle, I was flat out told that we need to address racism first.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

In 6 months, a year, 2 years we will still be talking about the same stuff on this thread.

When I mention things that can actually be done to move the needle, I was flat out told that we need to address racism first.

you were unconvinced by the arguments - doesn't mean the arguments were wrong

 

[tomwaits]

you were unconvinced by the arguments - doesn't mean the arguments were wrong

As I said, so in 2 years we will be here talking about the same thing because nobody will want to actually try to implement real change. Instead people will fight over racism and its ever expanding definition and the government will be happy they are not the focus.

 

[DaveXA]

you were unconvinced by the arguments - doesn't mean the arguments were wrong

While I think the arguments in a lot of ways were correct from what I've read, I do think effectiveness, or lack thereof is worth addressing. I tend to think the approach taken of the last 12 months or so hasn't really made a dent in the problems with the police forces and the justice system.

That said, I never really expected all that much because in a lot of ways, it's nothing short of a history repeat.

Whatever the arguments regarding systemic racism, which is clearly a problem, that won't change until there's a fundamental change in how police departments are run. I'm not seeing those changes yet. There are some individual departments trying new things, but they're too far and few between.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

While I think the arguments in a lot of ways were correct from what I've read, I do think effectiveness, or lack thereof is worth addressing. I tend to think the approach taken of the last 12 months or so hasn't really made a dent in the problems with the police forces and the justice system.

That said, I never really expected all that much because in a lot of ways, it's nothing short of a history repeat.

Whatever the arguments regarding systemic racism, which is clearly a problem, that won't change until there's a fundamental change in how police departments are run. I'm not seeing those changes yet. There are some individual departments trying new things, but they're too far and few between.

what approaches have been taken?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

As I said, so in 2 years we will be here talking about the same thing because nobody will want to actually try to implement real change. Instead people will fight over racism and its ever expanding definition and the government will be happy they are not the focus.

I mean you could also say that the reason we'll be here in two years is because people are not willing to address racism.

If you're not willing to budge on this, it seems weird to criticize people who also aren't willing to budge.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I'd start with things that should be non-controversial that will have the effect of minimizing biases without being overtly about race.

Take a stronger commitment to the 4th amendment. Conservatives should get behind that.

I feel like pushing use of force standards, and ensuring strict compliance on them should be doable.

I also feel like I haven't gotten push back from funding more social workers and mental health professionals to deal with those issues instead of the police is generally agreeable to most people.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

As I said, so in 2 years we will be here talking about the same thing because nobody will want to actually try to implement real change. Instead people will fight over racism and its ever expanding definition and the government will be happy they are not the focus.

i never said (and i don't think anyone else did either) to not push police reform - i said to do it without also addressing the systemic racism in policing

also i gotta say you're getting dangerously close to say racism is a bogeyman issue that primarily exists to divide
that is a deeply, deeply troubling position with bout zero evidence backing it up

 

[bigdaddysaints]

the problem is, the only.ones who can hold the offenders responsible are the ones who usually look the other way and do nothing about it. riots and violence isn't the answer, but the peaceful path isn't working either.
how do you suggest "holding the offenders responsible"?

 

[Tapxe]

As I said, so in 2 years we will be here talking about the same thing because nobody will want to actually try to implement real change. Instead people will fight over racism and its ever expanding definition and the government will be happy they are not the focus.

Lawmakers struggle to pass police reform measures in Louisiana legislature

BATON ROUGE—The chance to change police practices in Louisiana did not seem very good when Rep. Ted James presented a resolution to study them shortly after George Floyd was killed by a Minneapolis…

www.brproud.com

Seems you're right. Sadly the desperation of the oppressed causes riots and destruction of property to get attention.

 

[DaveXA]

what approaches have been taken?

Protesting, talking about reforms, talking about injustices, more protesting, more complaints about systemic racism (as valid as those complaints are), yet, when it comes to real nuts and bolts reform, I don't see police departments changing much through all this.

To be fair, I don't really have any good answers for the absurdly slow changes in law enforcement. I'd like to see more progress, but ultimately our leaders have to lead for all of that to happen.