Promising changes... where do we stand with Pete Carmichael? (1 Viewer)

Nope...not buying into that. PC called the plays, if he hamstrung a QB because he didn't feel confident in the QB, then he cut their knees off and set them up to fail.

We were told "Winston can't read pre-snap" then we were told "Dalton has a photographic memory" but the product on the field showed nothing with either. So....to me that falls on the OC's inability to field an effective attack....the QBs are just the scapegoats.
It’s both playcalling and not having good consistent QBs. I think Winston could have thrived in an offense built around him, but the offensive staff wasn’t willing to change their concepts with deeper route schemes for him. At the same time, they saw Winston as a QB who couldn’t adjust and advance in the offense they wanted to run in their eyes. It was a failure all around for both coaches and QBs to force it to work.
 
Pete hasn’t really had good QBs to work with since Brees retired. We expected him to turn average-below average QBs into franchise QBs, if we’re honest, and it hasn’t been a true reflection of him. The QBs we’ve had wouldn’t be any other team’s first or second choice to be a starting QB. The offense goes as far as what the QB can produce. We’ll finally get to see what his offense can really do with Carr being able to make every throw and maximize each receiver’s talent.
Exactly. There was some things Pete could have done better with more pre-snap motion and not having WR's close to the formation so the defense could disguise their pressure. I'm not sure how you design an offense to be successful with a gutless, immobile, weak armed QB.

After Thomas got hurt our best WR's were intermediate and deep threats and those completely clashed with our QB's ability. No one had to worry about a deep pass so the box was constantly full which takes away from the run game and Hill's effectiveness. Our offensive line suffered injuries and then you can't even move the pocket to help protect the QB. God knows how many missed reads there were or potential completions but because the WR wasn't wide open our QB wouldn't throw.

Best thing about Carr is there are no more excuses. If he can't get the offense to produce we can fire him. It also helps we weren't one of the 16 teams looking for an OC before we had Carr. Come be our OC, we don't have a QB, RB is about to be suspended and best WR will probably be cut. That's a hell of a sales pitch!
 
Just to play devil's advocate, do you think some of Pete's struggles last year were a result of having Jameis Winston and Andy Dalton under Center? We talk about players possibly being better with more talent around them but might the same be true for an OC?

I'm not a believer in Pete. Never have been. For an OC to have that kind of success and never get a HC gig is pretty telling. It was the SP & Brees show and everyone knew it. He was Fredo but then Fredo was given control of the family. The result was predictable. But what if Fredo had strong capos and a top notch consigliere? Could Fredo make it work? I guess we'll see.
 
I am not a fan of Pete. Never have been. He has coasted for over a decade behind Sean and knew he wasn't qualified for OC when Sean left. He took it anyway. While I am excited for the players we are acquiring, I am not enthusiastic that our offense will do anything different than last year. Why are we still giving Pete another pass? I don't think he knows how to call in the red zone... Or to call anything different than rush rush pass punt.

Pete will return with a better QB play and that should make a difference. Not having a signal caller that can check in and out of plays probably hurt Pete's ability to be successful. Granted a big issue last year was attention to detail, perhaps having someone like Derek Carr will fix the accountability issue Carmichael seemed to have little control over.

Payton's shadow usually cast that fear of doing wrong among offensive players and without that, mistakes piled. I'm not sure if enough has been done to rectify that, but getting a guy whose positives include his pre-snap assessment should be a boon.
 
I am not a fan of Pete. Never have been. He has coasted for over a decade behind Sean and knew he wasn't qualified for OC when Sean left. He took it anyway. While I am excited for the players we are acquiring, I am not enthusiastic that our offense will do anything different than last year. Why are we still giving Pete another pass? I don't think he knows how to call in the red zone... Or to call anything different than rush rush pass punt.
So you weren't a fan of his when the Saints won the Super Bowl? You actively rooted against him in 2009?
 
Just to play devil's advocate, do you think some of Pete's struggles last year were a result of having Jameis Winston and Andy Dalton under Center? We talk about players possibly being better with more talent around them but might the same be true for an OC?

I'm not a believer in Pete. Never have been. For an OC to have that kind of success and never get a HC gig is pretty telling. It was the SP & Brees show and everyone knew it. He was Fredo but then Fredo was given control of the family. The result was predictable. But what if Fredo had strong capos and a top notch consigliere? Could Fredo make it work? I guess we'll see.
Nope...because he took a QB that can put up numbers and cut his balls off with ineffective play calling. You call a series of 4 yard curls and throw a token deep route over the top and the QB waits to see if the deep is open then tries to come back to a curl if it isn't...he's going to have nowhere to go with the ball.

Our system was stale...plain and simple, you watch Minnesota or Buffalo play you constantly see receivers schemed open 10, 15 yards downfield consistently, we were micromanaging the QB position...telling our QBs throw to this guy at this point or there will be nothing else, and if they missed that window, they were stuck looking at 4 receivers at the end of their short routes.
 
I truly believe if he wasn't coaching under SP for as long as he has he might not even still be in the league. Or at very least he wouldn't be an OC.
Who thinks that PC would learn more new tricks, new ideas, new game plans etc etc and would benefit under another year of internship under Sean Payton? The answer, no. He’s learned everything he could from SP. There wouldn’t be anything new. How do I know ? Because SP himself allowed Pc to call plays A LONG TIME AGO. The date 9/13/2016. Pete calls his first game vs the Raiders. He had already been working under SP for 10 years. Give the man some credit. Coach SP consciously decided each year that he wanted PC as OC. And believe this, if pc is set free, SP will snatch him up quicker than the Saints contacted DC. Every great person learned their trade from someone else. SP was a garbage scab Chicago QB, until he trained under Parcells. Belichick you can say the same. Nicola Tesla mentored under Thomas Edison. If anything he’s overqualified for the job. PPL say he’s timid having never met the guy, or better yet, timid play calling? There’s no such thing. Decisions are made based off a perceived win rate %. Gambling is a trait of a loser, not a brave winner. When SP called the onside kick in the Super Bowl, was he a desperate guy taking a shot in the dark? Negative. He called that play because he knew it was going to work. Or at least the win % was in his favor. (it’s never been and they probably saw on film Indy sleeping on second half kickoffs when they have the lead or whatever). There’s effort that goes into every play is my point. Read this from 2016.

 
I feel kinda bad for the guy, given that he was reluctant to even take the job, but this seems to be an example of the Peter (Carmichael) Principle. Hope he proves us all wrong this year.
 
I am reserving judgement until the season starts, but there is a bit of me that thinks despite the talent on the roster the offense will still lack creativity and or the ability to adjust to what the defense is doing because that is what we saw last season.

I wonder how much the offense will transform as it looks to be a run heavy base offense with the ability to throw the ball deep (which is always a formula for success) but the intermediate passing game (which operates as an extension of the run game providing 4-5 yard receptions) should still be a staple of what the Saints do as that to is a formula for success and adds to the multiplicity of the offense by using the running backs in the passing game (which we got away from at times last season).

There are a lot of questions to ask about Pete and the offense this coming season and all eyes will be on him and that unit as DA has proven capable of calling a good/great defensive game, can Pete do the same on the offensive side is the question.
 
I’m hopeful, and relatively optimistic. All we can do is roll with it and see how the offense progresses. Carr is a substantial upgrade at QB, and I refuse to believe that we are either inept at evaluating Carmichael or willfully bringing him along despite knowing that he can’t cut it. The organization is well-run and willing to spend. So I am expecting considerable improvement.

We’ll just have to wait and see. Fretting about it won’t change it. But if he can’t get us in the top 15, then we should make a change.
 
I’m hopeful, and relatively optimistic. All we can do is roll with it and see how the offense progresses. Carr is a substantial upgrade at QB, and I refuse to believe that we are either inept at evaluating Carmichael or willfully bringing him along despite knowing that he can’t cut it. The organization is well-run and willing to spend. So I am expecting considerable improvement.

We’ll just have to wait and see. Fretting about it won’t change it. But if he can’t get us in the top 15, then we should make a change.
I think they stuck with Pete out of a lack of options. Being real here...this staff is in a make or break year.

Would you take a job connected to a boss with a history of being a fired for for performance reasons who's on almost the same track of performance 1 year in?
 

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